#1
I saw this article posted on the bad forum
http://roarmag.org/2014/08/pkk-kurdish-struggle-autonomy/
Some highlights
"For Öcalan, democratic confederalism means a “democratic, ecological, gender-liberated society,” or simply “democracy without the state.” He explicitly contrasts “capitalist modernity” with “democratic modernity,” wherein the formers’ “three basic elements: capitalism, the nation-state, and industrialism” are replaced with a “democratic nation, communal economy, and ecological industry.” This entails “three projects: one for the democratic republic, one for democratic-confederalism and one for democratic autonomy.”
"As a further sign that it is abandoning its Marxist-Leninist ways, however, the PKK have recently begun to make explicit overtures to anarchist internationalism, even hosting a workshop at the International Anarchism Gathering in St. Imier, Switzerland in 2012, which lead to confusion, dismay and debate online, but which went largely unnoticed by the wider anarchist press."
But I'm sure the erudite individuals of this forum can read the rest. Basically it seems that we have a good guy in the current middle-east bullshit. So my questions are; is this true or bullshit from a optimistic anarchist? And what can we do to help them (once they're no longer a terrorist group obviously, as that'd be illegal).
#2
evil_canadian
#3
[account deactivated]
#4
PKK good I stand with them, as well as poutine
#5
the war nerd wrote an article about how the peshmerga were badasses and were gonna fuck up ISIS (who he claimed were a paper tiger) but then they retreated shamefully and let them take over the dam and the US bombers had to save them.

but they seem cool as people whom i will never meet or know anything about
#6
well you came to the right place for the scoop on the Kurds
#7
the kurdish resistance warriors have lots of cool selfie pics on tumblr
#8

fleights posted:

the kurdish resistance warriors have lots of cool selfie pics on tumblr



post em if you got em

#9
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cdb_1386717587
#10
#11
#12
#13
The PKK Kurds and the Iraqi Kurds ain't the same. The Iraqi Kurdish state is already established as a petrol capitalist state backed by Western interests whereas the PKK remains in a decades long stateless revolutionary movement and never shall the two meet.
#14
Anarchists take credit for everything. Even in that article the dude says that the Paris commune, the Russian Revolution, and the Spanish revolution were actually anarchist despite what history says and what those people themselves said. That's because the real anarchist movement is pathetic and has never accomplished anything historically. So this article is probably not true, and if it was it would be a bad thing as it would mean the end of the PKK.

As for Iraq, the article saying:

But today, apart from a stubborn Iran, increasingly few obstacles remain to de jure Kurdish independence in northern Iraq. Turkey and Israel have pledged support while Syria and Iraq’s hands are tied by the rapid advances of the Islamic State (formerly ISIS).



should tell you all you need to know about the situation and the author.

#15

Graeber posted:

I see anarchism as something you do not an identity



This cunning perversion of Marx's claim that communism is the real movement of the working class has allowed anarchists to say that every good action is anarchist going back thousands of years, every failure is the result of authoritarian stalinism or not relevant to the good "doing" that already happened, and any organization, goal, disciplined message, or scientific analysis is already a betrayal of anarchism which has "doing stuff" already as the answer to all of those things.

Fine, in extremely repressive places like the United States doing anything at all is an accomplishment, hence occupy. But to make that the whole point is more ideologically backward than Bakunin. Marx's one sentence is far more nuanced and important than any number of books by Bookchin.

#16
i did some reading up of the ukrainian anarchist makhno, as far as i know the communist propaganda about him being a bandit was entirely correct, he went from town to town looting goods, hijacking trains and forcing people into his army at gunpoint. on the other hand the anarchists probably thought they were doing a good job of liberating the masses. if he had been born to muscovite factory workers rather than ukrainian peasants maybe the communists would be the ones opining about makhno betraying lenin and subverting the revolution with authoritarianism, since both movements used largely the same methods (because they are necessary in war). the communists were just in the right place at the right time to legitimise and carry through the popular demands for peace, land and bread.

"nestor makhno in the russian civil war", michael malet (41mb)
http://www.dropbox.com/s/t67p8ob6tft3dfp/Nestor_Makhno%20michael%20malet.pdf
"the myth of nestor makhno", colin darch (1mb)
http://www.dropbox.com/s/lvf8h8c5iprzj7p/Myth_of_Makhno.pdf
#17
glad we sorted that out, thx for the tips guys
#18

babyfinland posted:

glad we sorted that out, thx for the tips guys

stop making fun of the 'zzone. final warning.

#19
sorry very sorry
#20
What are Kurds? We just don't know.

#21

babyfinland posted:

well you came to the right place for the scoop on the Kurds

#22
Well, I think you're (Panopticon) being a little dismissive. I mean, anarchists or anarchists tactics have had a presence in most states that have had a successful revolution. Russia's obvious, anarchism had a long presence there successfully killing tsars and all that. China had all the warlords, which while isn't truly anarchism, did indicate a failing of the state. In Spain the anarchists were probably the most powerful, but the Communists got stronger due to Russian arms and the fact that the petit bourgeois preferred their bullshit about maintaining property rights, which inflated their numbers.
Basically my thesis is that Communism needs anarchism to be prevalent in a society to succeed, as it can successfully place itself as a law and order type solution to those that require that kind of a thing, when the Overton window in the society has so clearly gone to the left that actually conservatives have no chance. I mean, at least in Russia and Spain they had the right idea, since the establishment of communism meant anarchism had no chance, and the state can slowly segue into a reactionary government.
#23

Red_Canadian posted:

Well, I think you're (Panopticon) being a little dismissive. I mean, anarchists or anarchists tactics have had a presence in most states that have had a successful revolution. Russia's obvious, anarchism had a long presence there successfully killing tsars and all that. China had all the warlords, which while isn't truly anarchism, did indicate a failing of the state. In Spain the anarchists were probably the most powerful, but the Communists got stronger due to Russian arms and the fact that the petit bourgeois preferred their bullshit about maintaining property rights, which inflated their numbers.
Basically my thesis is that Communism needs anarchism to be prevalent in a society to succeed, as it can successfully place itself as a law and order type solution to those that require that kind of a thing, when the Overton window in the society has so clearly gone to the left that actually conservatives have no chance. I mean, at least in Russia and Spain they had the right idea, since the establishment of communism meant anarchism had no chance, and the state can slowly segue into a reactionary government.



i don't think generalisation across countries (maybe even across time within the same country) is really possible when it comes to ideologies and the chances of success for a given movement. i think they're unique to the country, sometimes even to the region, because of the massive range of factors that affect human behaviour. for example, in spain, ultimately the anarchists supported the bourgeois government, far from scaring the middle class:-

http://www.isreview.org/issues/24/anarchists_spain.shtml

On July 23, the Catalan Regional Committee of the CNT-FAI called a meeting to discuss whether to overthrow the Catalan government. Initially, FAI leader Juan García Oliver, who later entered the national government as minister of justice, argued to "go for everything," overthrow the government and establish libertarian communism. If the government were overthrown, however, it would have to be replaced by a workers’ government led by the CNT-FAI. The anarchists believed any such state would be a dictatorship, a mortal blow to their anti-statist principles. Federica Montseny argued that "her conscience as an anarchist would not permit her to accept...to go for everything as García Oliver proposed, because the installation of an anarchist dictatorship, because it was a dictatorship, could never be anarchist."37 And Mariano Vázquez, the regional secretary of the Catalan CNT, opposed "compromising the Organization in dictatorial practices."38

Looking back on the decision, FAI leader Diego Abad de Santillán wrote:

We could have remained alone, imposed our absolute will, declared the Generalidad null and void, and imposed the true power of the people in its place, but we did not believe in dictatorship when it was being exercised against us, and we did not want it when we could exercise it ourselves only at the expense of others. The Generalidad would remain in force with President Companys at its head, and the popular forces would organize themselves into militias to carry on the struggle for the liberation of Spain.39

When the final vote was taken, García Oliver backed down, and only one delegate voted in favor of overthrowing the government. The CNT announced that it would support Companys remaining as head of the government.

#24
all the 20th century states that were run by self proclaimed communists segued into capitalism because they were laying the groundworks for capitalism and capitalism was the only logical outcome of their policies, policies that were forced by the triumph of the SPD in germany and the defeat of the global class conscious proletariat. in defending the revolution they also destroyed it. this would have happened with or without anarchists
#25
well not all of them of course the chinese and spanish revolutions were different circumstances, mainly the russian revolution, but i believe that they all ended the same way, the state becoming the ruling class instead of the proletariat (that was too decimated to even constitute a force in society)
#26
Put down the bong, son.
#27
Never!

But yeah, the anarchists didn't overthrow the government, because it was a somewhat lefty government and if they did that they'd have to fight the forces the government could muster as well as franco.
As well, from reading Anthony Beevor's book on the Spanish Civil War, it seems like most of the liberal government types went along with communist policies specifically because they were afraid of anarchism. The communist line was the revolution after the war, so they weren't too big fans of it, but it was better in their eyes than the revolution now! But then the communists got big into the conspiracy game, following ol Joe, and starting executing people. And that's not even going into the July Days, when communist forces went into Barcelona, the stronghold of anarchism, and tried to take back the telephone building that anarchists had taken valiantly in the early days of the war.
#28
i think the past 40 years of American History X have showbn us that positioning slightly more radical groups in the public sphere in order to make your slightly less radical but still insane ideology more palatable to the proles is in fac tthe Way 2 Win
#29
its like how every group of girls has the Fat One in order to make the others more marriageable by comp[arison
#30
more like Turds
#31
http://www.amazon.com/Under-Three-Flags-Anti-Colonial-Imagination/dp/1844670902

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Not-Being-Governed/dp/0300169175/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=13C27XMJH0ZFAFT0QV6Z
#32
http://rt.com/op-edge/169672-israel-kurdistan-conflict/
http://www.vice.com/read/isil-be-damned-iraqi-kurds-still-love-america-724
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/06/30/kurdish-soldier-says-all-arabs-are-my-enemy/
http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/08/22/gotta-love-the-kurds-20000-yazidis-and-xtians-were-rescued-by-the-kurds-this-is-the-video-of-that-moment/
http://rudaw.net/NewsDetails.aspx?PageID=35916
#33
i am very sorry, and i am sad because the odds are that i will not read all of those links and will subsequently not as educated as i could have been.
#34
[account deactivated]
#35
i thought getfiscal was the big kurd expert here, living in montreal and all
#36
[account deactivated]
#37
[account deactivated]