Prime Minister Artur Mas has explicitly confirmed NATO membership as a key policy goal. In case there was any doubt about the future course of action of independent Catalonia, Prime Minister Mas stated very clearly, at an interview with Italian daily La Reppublica earlier this year and later before Parliament that the new state saw herself at the heart of NATO. This is in line with Catalonia’s commitment to the international community, the principle of collective security, international law, and the rule of law at sea. It is also compatible with a healthy, intense relationship with Russia. In his 20 December 2013 letter and memorandum to world leaders, Mas also stressed Catalonia’s commitment to collective security and “common defence”, as well as the country’s goal “to be a main actor in the Mediterranean”, stressing that “there will be no Catalan security gap”."
http://www.fdbetancor.com/2015/09/17/catalonia-an-essential-pillar-of-nato-peace-and-security-in-indi-pac-by-alex-calvo-and-pol-molas/
The mayor, Dani Cornellà of the Left-wing pro-independence CUP party, told The Telegraph he would disobey, despite warnings from Madrid that those who do so could be jailed.
“We are fed up. We are not going to obey. We only obey the Catalan parliament now and there is no turning back. We have disconnected from Spain and we are building the Catalan republic.”
http://jurist.org/paperchase/2015/12/spain-court-declares-catalonia-independence-plan-unconstitutional.php
*grabs popcorn*
RedMaistre posted:*grabs popcorn*
Looks like most of the show has passed and was not very exciting.
Basically the CUP didn't back up Artur Mas to become president of the Generalitat, despite them all being in agreement regarding independence. The plan was they had a majority independentist coalition which Artur Mas would lead.
It looks like the CUP, commonly perceived as an anticapitalist party, was happy to push the issue forward but not willing to support a corrupt demagogue like Mas. Once they were in a position to make demands they offered the solution of 3-5 joint presidents to govern the Generalitat, which Mas refused. This led to the cohesive movement towards independence ripping apart at the seams.
In it's wake Mas has annouced the possible dissolution of CiU and with the upcoming elections this has served for the current government to flex some muscle. It's become a major topic to cash in for easy political points, with only 1 of the major parties (podemos) offering any indication they would be open to some sort of process.
IMHO Mas has pushed the issue forward brashly to detract from massive amounts of corruption currently being investigated in his party. 12 of their offices have been closed, documents confiscated and their chief tresurer under arrest.
The public discourse around the logic of his push for independence rests on the idea that the central goverment of Spain is robbing Catalunya, the richest region, and using their taxes to improve the quality of life in other areas of Spain instead of staying in Catalunya. While he is happy to pour fuel on nationalist sentiment within the separatist movement his party's aim seems to be to acquire mainly fiscal independence from the central government.
Red_Canadian posted:It's funny that's actually a pretty accurate assessment of my feelings, although I feel it's an off-hand expression of disinterest. It's interesting that a socialist government with a pro-austerity policy with backing by communists and the left bloc is now in power. I mean, I doubt it'll go exactly the way Syriza went.
Wow. Nice post. A great summary of your vague premonitions on the issue. Really a great post.
gyrofry posted:I made a Portugal thread. no big deal
thanks man
So another month of the independentist coalition pressuring and pleading with the CUP to support Mas has done little but further disrupt the Catalan political landscape.
Mas attempted to woo the CUP by promising to pause the developments of casinos and institute (in the event of secession) a whole series of social welfare programs he had previously cut. Even during his annual televised xmas message (as acting president) he attempted to feign benevolence as he uncharacteristically appealed to the public to 'remember the workers and those who have nothing during the holidays'.
An internal split emerged within the CUP with some members taking the position that they should support Mas to lead them to independence. This disagreement culminated farcically in an assembly where 3030 militants of the CUP (a coalition of the far-left anticapitalists, etc) voted on whether they would effectively make Arthur Mas (neoliberal and corrupt af) president of Catalunya. The absurd result? A tie (1515 each way), days before the deadline.
After further complicated deliberations they finally decided not to support his presidency. But not without some members resigning out of disagreement, including the top deputy from CUP. In all likelihood new regional elections will have to be held in March.
The outlook for this is very unclear... especially considering the central Spanish government is now also president-less after the December general elections turned a two-party system into four, with little ability to form a majority (even in coalition) in support of any candidate.
Out of 350 seats, the current right-wing PP won the most (123), PSOE did worse than ever but is still second (90), Podemos did much better than predicted (69), and Ciudadanos ( a new neoliberal "center-right" party) did a little worse than expected (40).
The matrix of relationships between parties and possible outcomes is maybe not so interesting so I'll spare you the details, but suffice to say that the way the math works out there is no resolution possible without repeating a general election.
Barring, of course, the situation where any party changes drastically their position. Considering the increasing pressure this is possible. The process to resolve this set by the constitution is; majority; else-> simple majority; else-> king of Spain intercedes; else-> new elections. This would be the first time there would have to be a new general election due to failure to decide a president.
The surprising result of Podemos is due in large part to their support from regions like Catalunya, in response to their steady support of a referendum. With the likely new regional elections in Catalunya it's certainly possible a new independentist coalition could be lead by people in the Podemos Catalan coalition; En Comu Podem. In which case Mas and his party (recently renamed Democracia i Llibertat) would be left on the sidelines.
Gssh posted:suffice to say that the way the math works out there is no resolution possible without repeating a general election.
Thought I would give a brief update in case anyone is still interested...
After months of posturing and bullshit, there were no agreements reached between parties that could form majority.
PSOE did draft an agreement for a coalition with the up and coming Ciudadanos and attempted to woo Podemos onboard. It says a lot that PSOE's (Socialist in name) first port of call was a neoliberal center right party rather than the leftists with many more deputies.
Either way this was not successful; Ciudadanos initially blocked them until eventually it became clear that Podemos would not agree anyway (as they would have to relinquish any posibility of a referrendum for independence in Catalunya, among other things). This allowed Ciudadanos and other parties to score points by caricaturizing Podemos as 'not willing to dialogue' or 'not willing to be part of change'.
Basically the strategy seems to have been made with the belief that elections would inevitably have to happen again, so each party focused on making appearances of trying to move forward and attempting to pin the blame of the paralization on the others, hoping it sticks enough to affect the results in the upcoming elections. All the while trying to distance themselves from ongoing corruption scandals that keep bursting at the seams of their parties.
PP has happily continued as acting-government and blatantly disregarded most majority agreements (such as rejecting refugee deportation deal with Turkey).
While holding more suspicion than hope for Podemos it has been interesting to watch the clashes arising between the different parties forms of discourse. Iglesias is quick and sharp with a good knowledge of history. On many occasions embarassing and scandalizing the other deputies in his critiques.
A memorable one ... in reference to Felipe Gonzalez (former PSOE president of Spain in 80's) stating his disaproval of a possible coalition with Podemos, Iglesias referred to him as having 'hands stained with quicklime' (This was in reference to the PSOE covertly funding the anti-separatist death squad 'GAL' in the Basque country and the particular case where they tortured and murdered two separatists whose bodies were later found buried in quicklime). Everybody in the congress went nuts over this, lol.
Regarding Catalunya, Artur Mas was replaced by Carles Puigdemont at the last moment to allow a deal to go through with CUP. But nothing has moved forward as the entire central goverment has been paralized due to the failed election.
This is the first time in the short history of the constitutional monarchy that there is a new election due to failure to form government.
Podemos might form a coalition with IU (old guard leftist coalition), but if reality follow recent polls it's entirely possible that the results would be pretty much the same as the last one, in which case it's anyones guess what happens (or doesn't). Although with Otegi out of prison now, perhaps European separatism intensifies....
Last Sunday's general election received lesser participation and have resulted in a near identical split as December's which caused the paralysis in the first place. The only difference being that the incumbent PP did even better and the PSOE worse, as did Ciudadanos. Podemos entered the elections with Izquierda Unida (old-guard left party) under the name "Unidos Podemos" (united we can), but the results have still left them in third place despite polls indicating they would likely overtake PSOE. It's quite possible that the apparent shift in voters from Ciudadanos and PSOE over to PP is in line with the popular "anyone but Podemos" discourse.
The campaign was interesting in terms of how it involved Venezuela; Rivera (the candidate from Ciudadanos) made an embarrassing fanfare of going to visit the opposition leader as did Zapatero (PSOE's latest president of Spain). The opposition in Venezuela even managed to open a judicial investigation into Podemos and their supposed "illegal financing by Maduro's regime". All major press outlets and parties have consistently attacked the Venezuelan government, hoping that some of the mud lands on Podemos.
The matrix of im/possible coalitions is the same as last time, only difference being that it is unlikely for there to be a third general election, so something has to give on this occasion.
During the whole campaign Unidos Podemos has made abundantly clear that they would happily form a "coalition of change" with PSOE. It's unclear how likely this is, especially with their requirements of a constitutional reform and referendum option. Although PSOE has rejected any possibility of a coalition with PP. There is no possible math that works once again. So at some point one or multiple parties will have to compromise greatly according to their stated positions. It remains to see which do.
Any meaningful compromise from Unidos Podemos is likely to be regarding regional sovereignty, which would weaken their base considerably. Similarly PSOE could also compromise on this or allow PP to enter by abstaining on the simple majority second round vote. Both of these would alienate their base; either through concessions to independentists or evidencing a clear shift towards the right.
Since the Brexit vote happened prior to the election the EU became a hot topic. Unsurprisingly all four main parties were in favour of remaining in the EU, each with their own spin on it of course.
There continued to be cases of corruption coming to light during the campaign, one of particular interest was the case of audio recordings of the current PP Minister of Interior conspiring with the director of the Anti-fraud Office of Catalunya to find dirt on all independentist parties specifically. Evidencing that even the anti-corruption process is corrupt.
Either way the political landscape in Catalunya remained the same as December, divided but majority independentist parties with En Comu Podem leading. As such realistically there is no possibility of a unilateral process of independence any time soon.
Today the PSOE ("socialist" party) came to the decision to support the presidency of Rajoy from the PP, thus avoiding a third general election in December. The 60/40 split in favor fractured the party which for the last year had consistently stated that "no is no"; refusing to allow PP to govern. The secretary general and candidate of the party, Pedro Sanchez, has stepped down.
The PSC (Catalan Socialist Party) has said they will still vote "no", although it's unlikely to make a difference other than resulting in some form of sanctions for them. The newly stated position of the PSOE is that they are nobly avoiding a third general election which would be "gravely damaging to the health of democracy", yet the unsaid logic is that they are more concerned with losing further representation in the congress as happened in the second election.
Any glimmer of hope for a shift/crack in the political landscape is now firmly quashed. Although shifting to a minority government it's unclear how much of an opposition can be expected from PSOE or Podemos, whose own internal difficulties have been highlighted in the last months further disillusioning the public (although likely media has played a part in exaggerating this). For the time being Spain is stuck with four more years of neoliberal bullshit, and after nearly a year as acting government it's likely the PP have all their bases covered to deal with any additional pressure Podemos and independentist movements.
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/the-basque-conflict-and-ireland/
(really good article about the history and similarities and of course differences between the Irish Republican movement and the Basque independece movement)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJQkhWZekI
Song about surface to air missiles that was rumoured that the Provo IRA had in possession thanks to Gaddafi that were later found in Basque country.
http://galwayguild.ie/2013/04/the-story-behind-sam-song/
Edited by Cuntessa_Markievicz ()
Edited by Cuntessa_Markievicz ()
While Brexit is completely disastrous for both Northern Ireland and the Republic and potentially could mean that Rep Ireland will end up leaving the EU cause of our former narcissistic man baby imperialist rulers seeming to refuse to change their minds on literally anything. The only potential good news is that Irish reunification is very much a possibility particularly after this or launch the Troubles 2.0 who really fucking knows tbh..
Britain to push post-Brexit UK immigration controls back to Irish border
I have it on very good authority that there has already been fucking meetings about this in fucking Dublin. So yeah....
Cuntessa_Markievicz posted:Britain to push post-Brexit UK immigration controls back to Irish border
remember the lead up and immediate aftermath of brexit when we had every single political figure making official statements that they would absolutely never, ever ever do this 
Its like watching an old relative you somewhat despise but get a lot of entertainment from self implode/self destruct and you keep on telling them to fucking stop and listing the consequences of their self harm/suicide and why its bad but they keep on fucking self destructing and here we fucking are. I swear to god if the only good thing that comes out of this is the unification of Ireland and Scottish independence i'll fuck a tory.
here's a picture of one.
pure comedy.
*joke about rainbow democracy*
worried about tarnishing their brand warner bros demanded they evict cops or move ship. unable to break contract with government the charter company compromised, covering the characters with huge tarps.
this had opposite effect and drew more attention; after several days of ridicule and calls to "free tweety" the tarps were removed.
Most holy and religious fear it is
To keep those many many bodies safe
That live and feed upon your Majesty.
TRAMP 2: The single and peculiar life is bound
With all the strength and armour of the mind
To keep itself from noyance; but much more
That spirit upon whose weal depends and rests
The lives of many. Now let's beat the shit out of this wog