#241
[account deactivated]
#242
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I went to a David Harvey talk today. Wanted to hit him with a giant READ SETTLERS sign. One you see the Euro-Amerikan left as representative of the settler labor aristocracy's class interests it's so obvious.
#243
[account deactivated]
#244
chickeon
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what did he talk about huey
#245
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new chapter up plus some subtle styling changes http://readsettlers.org/ch7.html
#246
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alright who can make stickers and patches
#247
[account deactivated]
#248
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Rose weird lets start a new offsite together. For translation and publishing of marginal texts. And selling stickers and buttons.
#249
[account deactivated]
#250
mt.real
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i ordered a real life paper copy of this, finally
#251
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just throwing my hat in the ring if anyone still working on a chapter wants a hand
#252
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hey swampman did you do chapter 6? i cant find it anywhere. also anyone can feel free to take a stab at remaining chapters in the op. i forgot that i assigned myself chapter 5 rofl so i will get on that today
#253
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stegosaurus posted:

hey swampman did you do chapter 6? i cant find it anywhere. also anyone can feel free to take a stab at remaining chapters in the op. i forgot that i assigned myself chapter 5 rofl so i will get on that today


I finished chapter 11 and it's online, but still is not listed as done in OP. Can you update OP so we know which still need to be done and can contact the poster that might have already started the work?

#254
Post rating: ~
chapter 5 is up now. updated the op.

http://readsettlers.org/ch5.html
#255
Dont Mess With Sucess
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This book http://www.cronistas.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Night-Vision-Illuminating-and-Class-on-the-Neocolonial-Terrain-Butch-Lee-Red-Rover.pdf
#256
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that was a good one too
#257
Dont Mess With Sucess
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I sent you chapter 6, Officer Boss

Also note this paragraph from Chapter 9. Fans of in-jokes will get a mild squirt of dopamine outta this.

Badly wounded by U.S. imperialism's terroristic counter-blows, the Afrikan sharecropper struggle in the late 1930s continued to search for new directions. As late as 1939 there was considerable agitation. That year Rev. McKinney quit the STFU in protest, saying that: "The Negro is the goat of the STFU.

Edited by swampman ()

#258
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starting to pull source material for the chap 13 footnotes:

http://www.crepusculum.org:3711/domus/chapterxiitest.html

query - what would be the easiest way to get a copy of the first printing of a statistical teaching tool from 1979 (STEPHEN J. ROSE. Social Stratification in the United States. Baltimore, 1979)? It's been updated so many times the earliest copy I could find online was from 1990.

it's been kind of cool reading Settlers backwards along with the source material
#259
Post rating: ~

karphead posted:

query - what would be the easiest way to get a copy of the first printing of a statistical teaching tool from 1979 (STEPHEN J. ROSE. Social Stratification in the United States. Baltimore, 1979)? It's been updated so many times the earliest copy I could find online was from 1990.

universities sometimes have old editions of textbooks to help students who cant afford the new versions. kind of a long shot though.

#260
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So, uh, what's the final solution for settlers? Like the history of how cooperation fails leads to a kind of separatist politics, but then obviously white people who are separatists for themselves are on the wrong side of things. So you break up the empire and end the settler nation: does that mean sending whitey back to Europe? Or occupy them in Amerika? Like it sounds extreme, but those are the only two options right? I feel like JDPON is pretty much a meme now, but it's a logical extension of this line of argument.
#261
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
theres no innate traits to any culture. you just have to smash the culture, which means smashing the underlying economic motor to really solve for Mammon
#262
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Perhaps the drift towards JDPON type thinking can be avoided if the stress is put upon ending systemic inequalities through combined development rather than race war. China hasn't had to initiate a nuclear war of annihilation with the United States to raise its citizens from poverty. And no this does not mean falling back upon a simplistic narrative of color blind harmony,proletarian or otherwise.It would require a radical reordering of the United States as it now stands for its oppressed nations to embark on paths of endogenous development; for one thing, they would have to be acknowledged to really be nations in their own right, which goes against both the liberal and conservative discourses surrounding American race relations.

Edited by RedMaistre ()

#263
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He says what the end takeaway of Settlers is: that the colonized nations within USAia should seek their own dependence as seperate nations because within a settlerist nation there can be none of the working class unity which is necessary to bring about revolution
#264
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RedMaistre posted:

Perhaps the drift towards JDPON type thinking can be avoided if the stress is put upon ending systemic inequalities through combined development rather than race war. China hasn't had to initiate a nuclear war of annihilation with the United States to raise its citizens from poverty. And no this does not mean falling back upon a simplistic narrative of color blind harmony,proletarian or otherwise.It would require a radical reordering of the United States as it now stands for its oppressed nations to embark on paths of endogenous development; for one thing, they would have to be acknowledged to really be nations in their own right, which goes against both the liberal and conservative discourses surrounding American race relations.



But China did have to chase the Japanese and Americans off their land to be independent. If you advocate for independence for colonized nations within the Amerikan territory, you're advocating for some sort of de-colonization process. Sakai says straight up "breaking up the US Empire and ending the US oppressor nation." That means something. Perhaps it's too early to say at this point what that looks like, but people will have to have some idea eventually.

#265
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I think a good parallel of such potential in the USA for example could be drawn between chicanxs here and in MX and Koreans in Manchuria, who established their own autonomous Korean areas in China as a colonized and displaced people and later did so at home in Korea

Edited by EmanuelaBrolandi ()

#266
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I thought we all kind of knew that the only way to end empire involves us, personally, being shot in the head or becoming refugees.
#267
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This web site is really into saving the world through bike co ops and thinking about how sexist it is to criticize Hillary Clinton lately.
#268
[account deactivated]
#269
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: +
freeing aztlan has massive implications and economic possibilities, same as the black belt. urban centers need their own radical shift, but we need to address the land question first, no question.
#270
Mike Nelson here.
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the black belt thing probably made more sense before a whole lot of black people left the black belt. unless the idea is that you get black celebrities to talk about how cool it would be to abandon chicago, detroit, baltimore, new york, etc. for alabama.

also it would probably make sense to get rid of the border at california instead of pledging fealty to borders developed by the pope centuries ago or whatever happened (not looking into it)
#271
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whoops

Edited by thirdplace ()

#272
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#273
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I think Sakai is intentionally vague about the specifics of decolonizing the US for a few good reasons, primarily that there's no way of knowing the historical context these events will occur within, which will determine how it needs to be carried out. I don't think he's advocating white genocide mainly because it wouldn't work, and I think the "purge" style thinking is wrong even though I know we're half joking.

The idea that exterminating white people is the way to go seems misguided to me. I mean is exterminating every last Jew in Israel the best way to solve that problem? Maybe it ends colonization but it leaves everyone fighting over ash and rubble for decades with no benefit in sight. It seems like in that case it might actually end up happening, but it's not what we should be aiming for. You don't have to kill every member of an ethnic group to reshape society in such a way that the ongoing problems caused by settlerism are eliminated.

Taking my own country as an example, the Australian aboriginal people have been expropriated of most of the best land in the country and essentially fenced off into the desert. Clearly a meaningful solution involves granting aborigines control over land and also granting them the sovereignty/state power/resources to shape those territories into something beneficial for themselves. Crackers like me don't have to all die or be turned into slaves or something for that to happen, its not a necessary part of the program.

So the problem I think doesn't involve preemptive account of who needs to be purged or gulaged or whatever. If you went among the black masses in US cities today and said hey how would you undo colonization most wouldn't have a clear idea of how that would be achieved. Hence the need for large scale organizing of those masses - everyone needs to know the problems of settler society well enough that they are able to adapt and adjust to the changing circumstances and formulate good responses that don't amount to reformist change or just elevating a few bourgeois black people into public office or celebrity. Out of that organisation a flexible notion of how to pursue decolonization will occur. As long as everyone visits readsettlers.org
#274
Post rating: ~

Gibbonstrength posted:

Taking my own country as an example, the Australian aboriginal people have been expropriated of most of the best land in the country and essentially fenced off into the desert. Clearly a meaningful solution involves granting aborigines control over land and also granting them the sovereignty/state power/resources to shape those territories into something beneficial for themselves. Crackers like me don't have to all die or be turned into slaves or something for that to happen, its not a necessary part of the program.


The majority of surviving First Nations people here live in cities, which complicates the process of undoing dispossession. But the solution clearly involves radical transfers of land ownership, as opposed to the current regime of native title (which is not legal ownership at all), treaties with all surviving First Nations which recognise sovereignty and create peer relationships, community control, and extensive compensation. Justice would require prosecution and imprisonment of a great number of mostly white people. Spearing would be pretty rare but if we're serious about reconciliation it would probably be called for in the worst cases

#275
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Don't forget he's approving revolution against compradors within nations also. You follow this stuff you're going to being calling colored middle class people white supremacists all the time.
#276
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https://youtu.be/JQr5sLOqIZ4?t=3m7s
#277
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: ~

marimite posted:

Don't forget he's approving revolution against compradors within nations also. You follow this stuff you're going to being calling colored middle class people white supremacists all the time.

I'm just going to let colored people deal with their comprador middle class as they see fit while I focus more on

Every nation and people has its own contribution to make to the world revolution. This is true for all of us, and obviously for Euro-Amerikans as well. But this is another discussion, one that can only really take place in the context of breaking up the U.S. Empire and ending the U.S. oppressor nation. THE END

#278
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So basically, you believe that what J. Sakai argues is objectively true but you can't say it publicly. And it's all because you care so much about national self-determination. Sounds like narcissism~

The humor in the video isn't in calling black cops white supremacists. It's in a white guy saying the words. Why is a white guy saying it funny? Because he's not "letting" the cops have their opinions? No, BECAUSE HE IS NOT CREDIBLE IN THE SLIGHTEST.

edit: sorry, I'm being weird and aggressive and projecting things. i'm kind of frustrated with this stuff and I don't know what the problem is. it does bother me that sakai's book has resulted in a lot of weird petite bourgeois bullshit like MTW, but that's probably more the fault of those people than the book itself. there's a lot of things I still need to study, might find some answers reading about white panthers or working through the reasons amerikan maoist groups have split.

Edited by marimite ()

#279
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

the black belt thing probably made more sense before a whole lot of black people left the black belt. unless the idea is that you get black celebrities to talk about how cool it would be to abandon chicago, detroit, baltimore, new york, etc. for alabama.



the idea isnt to start a migration, just to support what already exists. urban areas would need to be ruled multinationally.

getfiscal posted:

also it would probably make sense to get rid of the border at california instead of pledging fealty to borders developed by the pope centuries ago or whatever happened (not looking into it)



idk what this is referring to tbh

#280
Occupied Aztlan
Post rating: ~

marimite posted:

So basically, you believe that what J. Sakai argues is objectively true but you can't say it publicly. And it's all because you care so much about national self-determination. Sounds like narcissism~

The humor in the video isn't in calling black cops white supremacists. It's in a white guy saying the words. Why is a white guy saying it funny? Because he's not "letting" the cops have their opinions? No, BECAUSE HE IS NOT CREDIBLE IN THE SLIGHTEST.



so the speaker isnt credible because hes white, than you go on to wonder why maoist groupings in the NCM failed. maybe identity uber alles isnt good socialist politics?