EmanuelaBrolandi posted:Sorry I was trying to get ifaped with terrible trolling to help me stop posting / reading the forum but I guess I can just change my pw and log out too. Sry for being a dick horse lord n sparks bandung.
bad post
cpusa: do we have to
stalin: yes
Petrol posted:the less we are concerned with doing community work as part of organising, the more ground we cede to the right by default.
This is somewhat true, but not the exact point I was trying to make by posting this. I'm more interested in the particular local character of fascism that is taking root in different communities; what are the support structures they tap into, what resistance they face (effective or not), and what is sustaining their existence within our local communities.
Within mainstream politics the swing to the right is more obvious, but the specific dynamics that give rise to it involve serious money and are much more top-down, eg. media giving these actors a platform (sensationalism = revenue), like the case of Trump or Brexit (although the extent of the influence is certainly debatable).
We probably all agree we have no local/national mainstream leftist movement to support; as such our focus must be grassroots. Similarly the battlefield is also local and grassroots.
So, to go deeper on my own questions...
The shift in the public discourse of these local groups is notable in reducing their public perception of being fascist/right wing. I mentioned before the intentional hiding of swastika's, but other things stick out too. Specifically about HSM; the public support for Palestinian liberation and animal rights are traits that one would be more likely to assume to be a position of a leftist group. Their self-portrayal as being victims of antifa violence and prejudice while they are "helping their community" also confuses things in public perception.
Make no mistake though, HSM isn't fascism-lite. They are a proper falangist group; their "self-defense" classes actively train thugs which have attacked local immigrants and alleged members of latin-american gangs. They are actively embedding themselves in "enemy territory" (their presence in majority-immigrant areas drew protests of hundreds of people). and their buildings and food collection stands have been attacked. Yet they have resisted well. I saw a video of 14 antifa attacking with sticks and being beat back by 6-8 HSM guys. Logistically they can't be evicted because the buildings they have occupied so far belong to Chinese nationals who have not placed an official complaint with the police. So the only thing the police can do in this context is try to create a firewall between antifa / HSM.
From what I know grassroots right wing groups are similarly plagued with constant splits and factions like the left, yet alliances do form and often internationally. These aren't always public, but I'm aware that leaders from different groups do run workshops and speak at events and centers internationally. Knowledge and strategy spreads.
My hopes for this thread is to draw comparisons between different strategies used by groups in different regions. What do they do publicly vs privately? What are the common characteristics of areas they are active in? What has the response been from the public, local government and local leftists?
This is just the seed of an idea, but my anticipation for this "research thread" is that if we pool our knowledge we could identify several strands/categories/strategies that are operating in various places (not just Europe). There's likely a lot of work already done in this regard, so copypasting is fine for a start.
It's both an achievable and necessary goal to defeat fascists locally. Knowing your enemy is a first step.
c_man posted:has anyone said "tacit support by state security agencies" yet?
or being the local sheriff and most of his deputies
SparksBandung posted:The_Boourns_Identity posted:COINTELBRO posted:
The 21st century is weird because it's the first time there is a huge nazi revival everywhere without communists to counter it, only tepid social democrats and internet liberal discourse. Plus there's an actual huge war going on in Syria of almost world war proportions but leftists prefer focusing on trans bathrooms and burkinis.
I wonder what is the Azov Battalion's position on queer theory and intersectionality?
intersectional religious / political movements are going to counter the nazi revival,
Islam->ISIS has a head start on this
I wanna help kick start the Christian-Communism brand
both sides will pincer attack the two faced beast that is New Fascism / PC Godless Liberalism, and then they will Face Off
i'm still reading myself but i promise not to drop any future history spoilers
http://www.bibleprofessor.com/files/Isaiah.pdfNice to see we're taking notes from the revolutionary leadership of the KPRF and are appropriating Clash of Civilizations rhetoric
what i'm getting from the responses is that people who call themselves communists really dislike God and don't want to be on His side which, to me, is utterly self-defeating. but hey it's not like communists are self-defeating am i write???? *takes a swig from muH whisky jug*
stegosaurus posted:c_man posted:
has anyone said "tacit support by state security agencies" yet?
or being the local sheriff and most of his deputies
While this probably does happen to a certain degree I have also seen various indications to the contrary locally other than documented arrests. For instance I was reading through some cop forums and found discussions about HSM which were quite hateful. Of course a similar level of hate was directed towards antifa groups, but from a different angle; one cop was posting about how infuriating it was that antifa had "appropriated the term anti-fascist" as they saw themselves as anti-fascists too.
I'm sure the local conditions are very different in the US, if someone wants to post about how things work locally I would be curious to know. It might make sense to include a section on "State support/collusion" in the org profile.
If future contributions follow the same headings of the previous profile that would be nice as it might be useful to keep the same form if more people start contributing.
An additional subject of interest I forgot to include was Funding.
HSM has very low overheads. Their finances are also not particularly interesting but I'm writing it more for sake of completion. They do occasional fundraiser events and take cash donations in person. Food/clothes/bedding/etc are also accepted and distributed through their centers. All indications show they work for free. They also accept donations through online platform (https://www.teaming.net/hogarsocialmadrid), which has a feature that makes them accountable to how it's spent. They also sell tshirts through an online store.
(Also, evangelical Christianity has it's own thread so please keep that discussion outta here, unless you're talking about evangelical fascist groups)
As I mentioned, the trend for amerikan nazi militias is worship of the us constitution as a religious icon. One of the specific forms in which this is manifested into the world is the belief that the constitution does not allow federal law enforcement jurisdiction outside the city limits of Washington DC.
Instead, according to the constitution, which explicitly does not mention or allude to the existence of either the office of the sheriff or of counties as subdivisions of the states, all law enforcement authority is in the hands of the county sheriff.
For the benefit of overseas comrades: States are subdivided into Counties. The Sheriff is an elected chief law enforcement official within a county. Sheriffs oversee the police forces in rural areas too sparsely populated to support local police departments. None of this beyond the existence of the States as subdivisions of the larger nation is described or reference in the constitution itself and the system has just propagated statewise and via other laws and common english law tradition.
Because the amerikan nazi militia movement has its roots in decaying small post-settler colonial towns in rural areas, the only law enforcement they're likely to encounter regularly would be the sheriff and sheriff's deputies. So they have made up the concept of "constitutional sheriff" as a sheriff who rejects any higher legal authority from outside the county and claims sole jurisdiction for law enforcement. They seek to subvert the offices of the sheriff by either having one of their own elected or by converting existing sheriffs to their belief system. Often times this comes with (legally meaningless) proclamations that federal police forces are banned from operating in the county.
The whole point is to build a legal structure in which the nazi militia is allowed to operate free of interference from law enforcement. This is partly important because some federal laws require the signature of a "chief law enforcement officer" on the license for purchase of military hardware like automatic weapons. It also allows the nazis to play rooty tooty shooty army man without being harassed by cops, or ignore laws (like Federal public lands, environmental restrictions, wildlife sanctuaries, etc) they don't agree with. Ultimately, it enables them to act in more insidious roles, including intimidation and self appointed legal structures such as their attempt to force nazi mediation upon a homeless support group in rural Oregon which I referred to before, or lynchings of latinos along the southern border, the only other "real world" activity they occasionally participate in.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/08/sheriff_glenn_palmer_makes_his.html This article describes some of the effects of having one of these monkeys in office.
The amerikan nazi movement is very much a rural, settler/colonial traditionalist movement, and I think that's the main contrast between them and GSSH's urban nazis. They live in and come from dead and dying small shithole towns in the rural areas, towns which were plopped down as small hubs for local natural resource exploitation and genocide. The towns all boomed until they ran out of trees to chop and prairie to fence, things went downhill, white people are left looking at the debris and seeing that they have no future. All they know of the world is that grandpa moved in here and chopped whatever trees he wanted and dug up whatever ore without concern for your liberal concepts of pollution or sustainability, and they just want that back.
edit: basically, i think that if you want to learn about far-right movements you had better be sure that you know about all the differences between how they can operate vs how left movements can operate. trying to learn about/from their organizational structure is going to be really misleading unless you also know the different kinds of constraints they're under.
edit 2: with that in mind it would be cool to learn a bit more about how infiltrators operate differently within left and right movements
Edited by c_man ()
Gssh posted:one cop was posting about how infuriating it was that antifa had "appropriated the term anti-fascist" as they saw themselves as anti-fascists too.
Petrol posted:I'm willing to accept that you're just trying out a gimmick but if so it's really poorly executed and you should stop
yeah i mean this chesterton-zizek leftist shit sucks. liberation theology works better imo
Horselord posted:stalin: you should let black people in
cpusa: do we have to
stalin: yes
and then they just up and let promising black thinkers out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Haywood
that's why Ray O Light was formed
One thing the American left needs to do in is to get back some of that self-determination rhetoric at home. Anti-nationalism is not the same as internationalism and the latter has way more promise for not only bringing people together over their interests within some chunks of the world population, but also bringing those chunks together. That's what the Panthers were so good at.
The talk about economic boycots bubbling up in some parts of BLM could be put in a useful direction if groups like the NBP keep making their way to becoming (as Malcolm X would say) politically mature. That's also somethin the BPP had spot-on. It's also what the white bourgeoisie leads the white proletariat to do anyway against non-white anything so the groundwork for the tactic is there in a reactionary form, it just needs to be subverted. Among Sanders babies this shouldn't be too hard since they're not conscious of it anyway. They could wake up and change course in one fell swoop.
Honestly if this can be accomplished, you've already gotten rid of a big chunk of the cryptofash appeal among people who get sucked in by the fake sympathy.
Edited by kcnaofficial ()
So basically why isn't the left using more of this to shore up Serve the People Programs?
c_man posted:has anyone said "tacit support by state security agencies" yet?
today in Portland Oregon, an "open carry" rally had 100 nazis with assault rifles taking the guided tour of the state Capitol building and burning an effigy of the governor on the front steps. Police checked to make sure they had concealed weapons permits before entering the building. Unless they didn't want to show them, in which case they weren't bothered.
2 hours later, a black lives matter protest has just started. They're allegedly moving towards a park. Riot police are deployed and blocking traffic.
SparksBandung posted:Speaking of state support, during the Chávez years, subsidy programs in were provided to US activists, the Bronx being a famous example but also this Venezuelan Aid for American Indians
So basically why isn't the left using more of this to shore up Serve the People Programs?
because bronx petrol and other venezuelan oil benefit programs were usually one-off programs and most targetting the US dont exist anymore regardless. we arent just saying 'ehhhhhhh naw' and leaving resources on the table, come on.
MarxUltor posted:c_man posted:
has anyone said "tacit support by state security agencies" yet?
today in Portland Oregon, an "open carry" rally had 100 nazis with assault rifles taking the guided tour of the state Capitol building and burning an effigy of the governor on the front steps. Police checked to make sure they had concealed weapons permits before entering the building. Unless they didn't want to show them, in which case they weren't bothered.
2 hours later, a black lives matter protest has just started. They're allegedly moving towards a park. Riot police are deployed and blocking traffic.
Are you from Oregon?
kcnaofficial posted:Are you from Oregon?
nice try officer
Report to the Office of University Programs, Science and Technology Directorate, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Published November 2016
This report presents findings from a two-year study, “Recruitment and Radicalization among US Far-Right Terrorists.” This investigation examines multiple aspects of recruitment and radicalization, such as the quality and quantity of exposure to right-wing ideologies prior to extremist involvement; types of recruitment; pre-entry risk factors for extremist participation; and the extremists’ perception about why he/she was unable to progress beyond the planning stages of a terror plot. The empirical analysis is divided into four distinct but overlapping reports.
Gssh posted:Just a reminder that this thread isn't intended for discussing the failures of the left, as we have 1000 other threads for that. This thread is for discussing the successes/innovations of grassroots fascism from a local perspective.
Gssh posted:They do occasional fundraiser events and take cash donations in person. Food/clothes/bedding/etc are also accepted and distributed through their centers. All indications show they work for free. They also accept donations through online platform (https://www.teaming.net/hogarsocialmadrid), which has a feature that makes them accountable to how it's spent. They also sell tshirts through an online store.
Old post but lmao at treating this being the open and honest basis of a well funded & organised fascist militia with less skepticism than claims of covert state sponsorship
blinkandwheeze posted:An underground and subversive politically partisan organisation managed to accrue resources comparable to mainstream nonpartisan charitable orgs thanks to the innovative funding model of online t-shirt sales
That's not really a point I was trying to make. Rather the opposite; they do not have resources comparable to mainstream org. Surely they could have other rackets going; but I only listed what is public/known.
this is necessarily based on extensive financial and material donations but you are taking it at face value that a far right militia are simply a scrappy underdog merely taking contributions from concerned and supportive citizens. The amount of times covert deep state funding of fascist organisations has been discussed on these forums should be enough for anyone to treat such claims with immense skepticism
Membership fees, goon camp registration, and of course
"Forever Enduring, Always Ready (FEAR), a small Georgia militia consisting of active-duty soldiers who had served in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2011, its leader, Isaac Aguigui, asphyxiated his pregnant wife to get her life insurance money. He then spent nearly $90,000 on guns and ammo for the militia. "
At the same time I think it might be unwise to entirely dismiss their grassroots activity (and the support it generates) because it's having a very real effect in being a gateway to the extreme right for a lot of working class people, or at the very least it softens resistance to it.
The point of the OP was to open up a discussion on differences in fascist tactics from a local perspective. I was hoping others would contribute. This particular org is just one node in a broader ecosystem.