#81
RUH ROH
#82

discipline posted:

along with 18 premature babies in hospital who died with the electricity was cut.

Lol are we really back to taking babies out of incubators already

ooooh oooh have we done the one about evil government oppressors being handed piles of viagra so they can run around raping everyone, that one's still my favorite from the last 4 or so "revolutions" propaganda

#83
http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=45219&cid=23&fromval=1

Israeli channel 10 aired Thursday night a message from a member of the “Syrian National Council” to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in which the first asked for Tel Aviv’s help in overthrowing the Syrian regime.

In his message, “Syrian National Council” member in Turkey Khaled Khoja considered that the Zionist entity’s benefit lies in toppling the Syrian regime which “works for Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas”.

Khoja stressed that keeping the Syrian regime is a victory to Iran, and is an implementation to its constant threats to wipe the Israeli entity off the map.

“The Syrian people call upon the international community to support establishing a buffer zone and a security crossing in Syria,” he further said, emphasizing the importance of responding to the Syrian people’s request for international protection.

#84
http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=45129&cid=23&fromval=1

Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister for Arab and African Affairs Hussein Amir- Abdollahian on Friday described resumption of Arab League mission in Syria as fruitful.

Abdollahian stated that Tehran would appreciate any measure that can help restore peace and tranquility to Syria and prevent more damage to the Syrian nation.

Amir-Abdollahian cited the first round of AL observers' report on Syria as “realistic and balanced,” adding Tehran would welcome any plan which supports the reforms initiated by Syrian President Bashar Assad.

He said Syria's problems should be settled through “domestic means.”

Expressing regret over recalling of some ambassadors to Syria and closure of their embassies in the Arab state, the Iranian deputy foreign minister underlined that such measures would deteriorate the situation.

'We believe that such hasty measures would not settle the problems, but would on the contrary worsen the situation,' he said.



http://www.voltairenet.org/Lavrov-gets-hero-s-welcome-in

Tens of thousands of Syrians amassed along the roads of Damascus on Tuesday morning, 7 February, to welcome Sergei Lavrov, Foreign Minister of the Russian Federation, in the wake of that country’s veto, in tandem with China, at the Security Council.

The Russian Minister was accompanied by the Director of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Mikhail Fradkov, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mikhail Bogdanov, Deputy Director of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Vladimir Zimakov, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Department of Russia’s Foreign Ministry Sergey Vershinin, and Russia’s Ambassador to Damascus Azamat Kulmukhametov.

For the Syrian people, Mr. Lavrov’s visit holds out the hope of coming out of a nightmare that has lasted now for ten months. Most of all, it is the specter of a direct intervention by NATO troops in their country that is receding.

Nonetheless, on the Mazzeh highway where the crowd had clustered in the morning, an uninterrupted succession of ambulances streamed in from the outskirts of Damascus during the whole day.

Indeed, the regular army has intensified its offensive against the armed groups that plague the country. Armed clashes are currently taking place in Homs and Douma, an outlying area of Damascus, which are the main hubs of the interference in Syria. Now that she is confident of Russia’s and China’s support and that the presence of gangs has been certified, in particular by the Arab League observer mission report, Syria can now protect its people.

While civilians have long called for the intervention of the army, the Syrian state was unable to take action because of the ban imposed by the Arab League to send troops to cities. The Syrian government was trapped in the following situation: either it allowed its population to be terrorized by the armed gangs or it intervened militarily, and in this case risk being condemned as a regime to be stopped at all costs.

Now that respect for international law is guaranteed by Russia and China, the Syrian state can finally "assume its responsibility" as Mr. Lavrov stressed at the beginning of his meeting with President al-Assad.



http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/assad-reforming-party-and-state

It is war on Syria.

That has become the main feature of what is happening in the country. This does not in the least mean that there isn’t a major domestic problem, or that the regime isn’t in need of radical changes, economic and administrative, as well as political.

Such changes in turn require fundamental amendments to the constitution. Nobody still thinks that this can be ignored.

But there is something hysterical about the escalation to which Syria’s foreign adversaries have resorted, as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov observed. And that forces the international dimension onto center-stage.

This has a big impact on the course of the ongoing protests in Syria. Many activists have begun to openly voice their rejection of the militarization wave that has swept over the opposition in many parts of the country. They also largely reject many leaders of opposition groups active abroad, who seem to have lost any last semblance of independence. Their agenda has fallen hostage to the decisions of countries that sponsor them and provide them with political, financial, media, and even material support.

At home, people who have visited President Bashar Assad affirm that he is aware of many realities. Some say he has learned much about his country in the past year, from the intensive meetings he continues to hold with groups of young people, local leaders, and members of the public. These meetings have familiarized him with many issues and made him appreciate that the crisis is more serious than state officials publicly concede.

Assad has indicated clearly that the Baath Party needs a serious shakeup and sweeping changes extending from its mentality and modus operandi to its leadership bodies. He has also indicated that the state and all its institutions require a thorough overhaul that will take time to achieve and that it is no longer possible to tolerate its current debilitated condition or the laxity which has turned corruption into the norm in everything that touches people’s lives.

In the area of political freedoms, Assad is more conscious of the need to allow all sections of the public means by which to express their thoughts, take their own initiatives, and bring the behavior of the state and its officials under proper scrutiny.

But while tacitly acknowledging the need to make fundamental changes in the area of political and media freedoms, the Syrian president does not conceal his fears. He is wary of attempts to turn the media in Syria into a replica of major outlets elsewhere that are bankrolled by politically-motivated sponsors.



http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/sandbox/veteran-us-diplomat-questions-syria-storyline

I have serious problems with all the talk about military intervention in Syria. Everyone, especially the media, seems to be relying solely on anti-regime activists for their information. How do we know 260 people were killed by the regime in Homs yesterday? That number seems based solely on claims by anti-regime figures and I seriously doubt its accuracy.

I served over three years in Damascus at the US Embassy and I know how difficult it is to sort fact from rumor in that closed political society. We were constantly trying to verify rumors that we had heard about assassinations, regime arrests, etc., and that included the Agency, which was just as much in the dark as everyone else. Today, we have a skeleton embassy which I am sure is under constant surveillance and with very few personnel to go out and report on what is happening. When I was in Damascus over two years ago, I was less than impressed with the Embassy's sources and with its understanding of the dynamics of what was going on Syria. And the same is true when I talk to officials at the State Department.

The media, and to an extent the Administration, have personalized the conflict in Syria as being about Bashar Assad and his family. They have consistently underestimated the sectarian nature of the conflict there. It is not just Bashar Assad and his family that are hanging onto power at all costs, it is the entire Alawi system of control of the country, including the military, the security services and the Baath Party. I believe that Alawites firmly think that if they lose power, the Sunnis will slaughter them, That was one reason Hafez and his brother Rifaat were so ruthless in Hama thirty years ago. And everyone in the West conveniently forgets the campaign of assassinations and suicide bombings carried out in the three or four years before Hama by the Muslim Brotherhood throughout the country. I personally witnessed the aftermath of such bombings in which several hundred people were killed. While the State Department, the CIA and other organs of government may have short historical memories, the people in Syria do not.



http://redantliberationarmy.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/western-sponsored-massacre-in-homs-a-direct-response-to-russian-and-chinese-veto/

Today’s massacre committed by western-backed insurgents in Syria’s second city, Aleppo, sent a clear message to Russia and China – that it is prepared to violate all international procedures to force the destabilisation of Syria and the end of the government Presided by Bashar al-Assad.

The death toll of the attacks is currently at 28 with 236 wounded. Accounts from eyewitnesses who said they felt the explosion up to 20 kilometers away, indicate that the explosives used were highly advanced.

The attacks that began at 9am took place five minutes apart outside buildings of extreme sensitivity – one military security building and the other a law enforcement agency – both located in residential areas including near a park where people have breakfast in the morning. Footage showed limbs strewn across the streets and the dead included children, adult civilians and members of the security forces.

Initial reports by western and GCC backed media seeking to pin responsibility for the massacre on the Syrian government were blown out of the water by admissions from senior insurgents in the so-called “Free Syrian Army” (FSA) including FSA commander Riad al-Assad, colonel Malik al-Kurdi and colonel Arif Hamood.

There can be no doubt that this attack was directed by the west. That they took place in areas of such high security, indicates that they depended on extremely advanced intelligence – something which the insurgents must rely on western forces for. The sheer strength of the explosions also suggests that the explosives used were provided by powerful forces. Yesterday, Syrian media reported that the authorities had seized a cache of Israeli weapons, explosive devices and military uniforms in a Peugot 404 in the al-Khalidya neighbourhood of Homs.



http://gowans.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/syrias-uprising-in-context/

I’m on the side of the Syrian government. The Assads backed away from the Ba’athist commitment to socialism further than I would have liked, but I recognize that the possibilities for achieving socialism in a small Third World country have become vanishingly small since the demise of the Soviet Union (and were not without formidable challenges before then.) All the same, the Ba’athists continue to obstinately hold on to elements of the party’s socialist program; hence, the US State Department’s complaint about “ideological reasons” getting in the way of privatization.

Moreover, Ba’athist Syria remains an organized force against Zionism and for Palestinian national liberation, and it’s not clear that a successor government would follow the same path. Importantly, what would likely follow Assad’s ouster is hardly to be embraced: A country thrown into chaos by competing militias and warlords, where torture and the systematic extermination of the old regime’s supporters run rampant, as has characterized post-Gaddafi Libya, or the installation of a US puppet regime to facilitate the exploitation of Syria’s land, labor and resources by Western captains of industry and titans of finance. A third choice of more space for other political parties and the parliament being given new powers is academic. The hard-core of the rebellion won’t be satisfied with anything less than the complete extirpation of the Ba’athists and what they stand for: some measure of socialism and the secular state. Neither will the United States, Britain, and France settle for the continuation in Damascus of a state committed to independent, self-directed economic development and alliance with Iran.

The choice, then, is between, on the one hand, the triumph of yet another eruption of imperialism under the guise of humanitarian intervention, and on the other, the preservation of the Ba’athist state, and Syria’s self-determination. If the Ba’athists are overthrown, a blow will be struck for imperialism. Their survival will preserve the life of an organized force against Zionism, imperialism and for some measure of self-directed development toward socialism.

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#85
reuters is reporting that nobody claimed responsibility for the aleppo bombings despite the fact that a fsa colonel did just that on france 24 lol
#86
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#87
literally every news article on the aleppo thing has the fsa denial of involvement on like the third paragraph, its as if news outlets were leading with Bush Knocked Down The Towers on 9/12
#88
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#89
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#90
you already did, it's called Class War
#91
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#92
it shouldnt but it always really agitates me when people use reactionary to mean 'someone who reacts'
#93

Tsargon posted:
it shouldnt but it always really agitates me when people use reactionary to mean 'someone who reacts'



same

#94
[account deactivated]
#95
quite indepth analysis of the israeli position

The factors affecting the Israeli position

Israeli strategy is based on the concept of "fronts", which are continually changing and not necessarily linked to geography; Israeli strategy does not commit itself to the notion of borders, which are stable, acknowledged, and geographically specified. Since Syria is a state with significant regional stature and influence over several different fronts, the Israeli position is not only based on considerations relating to the Syrian-Israeli track, but also to Syria's influence in other fronts where Israel believes Syria to be an effective actor:

1. The Golan front: Israel is extremely careful to maintain the calm that has reigned over this front since the October War of 1973; during the past twenty years, only one Israeli has been killed on the Golan front. Naturally, what takes place in Syria can have a decisive impact on this front, where things are currently calm, and if they change, they can only change for the worse from the Israeli perspective. If the regime were replaced, it could increase the likelihood of destabilization on the front, including the possibility that a new regime might attempt to regain the Golan through force; military confrontation also could erupt if the current regime were cornered and decided, as one Israeli writer put it, to "go crazy."

In the present circumstances, Israel has taken some practical measures, including placing its forces on high alert in anticipation of any emergency. In addition, the army has leveled extensive tracts of land near the ceasefire line in order to improve visibility, reinforced the fence that marks the line, and planted more anti-personnel mines. Furthermore, the army has established what it calls the "smart fence" in the region bordering Majdal Shams, and the unit garrisoning the Golan has been supplied with anti-riot gear following attempts to cross the fence during recent demonstrations on the anniversaries of the 1948 Nakba and the June War of 1967. The Syrian position is the decisive one in determining whether the Golan front will heat up or cool down. For decades, the Golan Heights were largely absent from media coverage since little of note took place there. However, Israeli analysts, military commanders, and politicians believe that things could change if a new regime rose to power.

2. The Israeli-Iranian front: This is considered one of the most important, heated, and threatening fronts to Israel. There is a quasi-consensus in the Zionist state that regime change in Syria would constitute a blow to the Iranian-led radical axis in the region. Israel's goal is to create distance between Iran and Syria, thereby neutralizing the latter in any prospective military (or economic or political) confrontation with the former. Syria would have an important - but non-decisive - role in any such confrontation.

3. The Lebanese front: Syria is widely viewed as the main party supplying Hizbullah with arms and political support, as well as serving as a conduit for Iranian supplies to the Lebanese resistance. The outcome of the internal conflict in Syria will have a decisive impact on Hizbullah's strength and behavior, as well as on the political and security situation in Lebanon generally, and on Israel's relationship with Lebanon.

4. The Palestinian resistance front: Israel sees no indications of a change in the Syrian position vis-à-vis the Palestinian cause if the regime were replaced, mainly because any new authority in Syria would need to develop its domestic legitimacy - and opposing Israel while supporting the people of Palestine is among the pillars of legitimacy of rule, any rule, in Syria. Israel frequently criticizes Syria for harboring Palestinian factions, but in fact senior Israeli leaders fear the freeing of Palestinian organizations from any restraints and believe that the Syrian regime represents a central authority that regulates behavior and keeps events from slipping out of control.

5. The emergence of new fronts: Israel fears that changes taking place in the Arab world could present it with threats on new fronts. These could include a new threat from Iraq, as described by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a Knesset address, and/or the formation of a new anti-Israeli axis. The latter fear was expressed by a senior Israeli Defense Ministry official, Amos Gilad, who said during a radio interview that "if the Syrian regime changes, that would lead to the establishment of an Islamist empire led by the Muslim Brothers ... in the Middle East, for everything that is bad there is something worse. The ideology of the Muslim Brothers is the establishment of an empire on the lands of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, and to erase Israel from the face of the earth."

There are also other influential factors, such as the question of the peace talks and the fate of Syrian arms (especially missiles), not to mention the effect of events in Syria on Jordan, on Israeli-Turkish relations, and on Israeli-Russian relations, given that Russia is supporting the Syrian regime and supplying it with weapons.

Israeli positions are determined by the factors mentioned above, and divergences among the stances of the political, military, media, and academic elites stem from the selections of factors taken into consideration and given the most weight in their respective assessments of the situation. Some believe that the most important element in the relationship with Syria is the ongoing calm on the Golan, and therefore that the survival of the regime is in Israel's interest; the same conclusion is reached by those fearing chaos or the rise of a more radical regime. On the other hand, those who prioritize dealing a blow to the radical axis in the context of the confrontation with Iran conclude that the fall of the Syrian regime is in Israel's interest.



There appears to be a difference between the positions of the military leadership and the political leadership. The military seems to prefer the survival of the Asad regime, primarily for fear of the alternatives and of the spreading of arms and chaos, which could inconvenience and even harm Israel. On the other hand, politicians want the regime to fall as this would weaken what they describe as the "axis of extremism" in the region, especially Iran and Hizbullah.



There are varying opinions in Israel on whether or not the fall of the Syrian regime would be in Israel's interest. Regardless of this divergence, there is a near-consensus on central points relating to Israel's stake in what happens in Syria:

As regards the Golan, Israel is very comfortable with the current Syrian regime, and there is a fear in the Hebrew state that a new leadership would lead to the end of the calm on this front.

Any new regime in Syria will take a stance that is hostile to Israel because it will be in need of domestic legitimacy. On the other hand, the current regime (if it remains) will be in need of external legitimacy and would have to relax its position toward Israel.

On the other hand, the crisis is an opportunity to extract Syria from its alliance with Iran and Hizbullah, which is a higher Israeli interest.

The events in Syria could lead to the transfer of surface-to-air and surface-to-surface missiles, as well as chemical and/or biological weapons, to armed groups that are hostile to Israel, chief among them the Lebanese resistance movement, Hizbullah. This would be a disastrous development for Israel.

Israel has no influence over the course of events in Syria, but the events' repercussions affect Israel. Mainstream opinion calls for minimizing statements and avoiding interference unless there was a crossing of red lines, specifically the transfer of advanced or non-conventional weapons to Hizbullah.



http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/4336/the-israeli-position-toward-the-events-in-syria

Edited by babyfinland ()

#96
irregardless, that really begs the question: whom amongst us could care less?
#97

gyrofry posted:
irregardless, that really begs the question: whom amongst us could care less?



I just feel really bad for Syrians right now

#98
ugh, no, see that was a oh nevermind
#99
[account deactivated]
#100
League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria

Report of the Head of the League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria for the period from 24 December 2011 to 18 January 2012


A. Monitoring and observation of the cessation of all violence by all sides in cities and residential areas

25. On being assigned to their zones and starting work, the observers witnessed acts of violence perpetrated by Government forces and an exchange of gunfire with armed elements in Homs and Hama. As a result of the Mission’s insistence on a complete end to violence and the withdrawal of Army vehicles and equipment, this problem has receded. The most recent reports of the Mission point to a considerable calming of the situation and restraint on the part of those forces.

26. In Homs and Dera‘a, the Mission observed armed groups committing acts of violence against Government forces, resulting in death and injury among their ranks. In certain situations, Government forces responded to attacks against their personnel with force. The observers noted that some of the armed groups were using flares and armour-piercing projectiles.

27. In Homs, Idlib and Hama, the Observer Mission witnessed acts of violence being committed against Government forces and civilians that resulted in several deaths and injuries. Examples of those acts include the bombing of a civilian bus, killing eight persons and injuring others, including women and children, and the bombing of a train carrying diesel oil. In another incident in Homs, a police bus was blown up, killing two police officers. A fuel pipeline and some small bridges were also bombed.

28. The Mission noted that many parties falsely reported that explosions or violence had occurred in several locations. When the observers went to those locations, they found that those reports were unfounded.

29. The Mission also noted that, according to its teams in the field, the media exaggerated the nature of the incidents and the number of persons killed in incidents and protests in certain towns.

B. Verifying that Syrian security services and so-called shabiha gangs do not obstruct peaceful demonstrations

30. According to their latest reports and their briefings to the Head of the Mission on 17 January 2012 in preparation for this report, group team leaders witnessed peaceful demonstrations by both Government supporters and the opposition in several places. None of those demonstrations were disrupted, except for some minor clashes with the Mission and between loyalists and opposition. These have not resulted in fatalities since the last presentation before the Arab Ministerial Committee on the Situation in Syria at its meeting of 8 January 2012.



http://www.columbia.edu/~hauben/Report_of_Arab_League_Observer_Mission.pdf

#101

babyfinland posted:
League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria

Report of the Head of the League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria for the period from 24 December 2011 to 18 January 2012


nice reading the first page pause not

#102
http://www.voltairenet.org/Syria-2011-2012-a-rematch-of

The road to Damascus goes through Beirut. Washington’s roadmap against Syria always involved Lebanon as a multi-faceted springboard. In fact, Washington and its allies wanted the deployment of UNIFIL troops, mostly comprised of NATO soldiers, being sent to Lebanon to be stationed on the Lebanese-Syrian border in 2006. Feeling threatened, Damascus warned that it would close the borders with Lebanon and the idea was scrapped. Syria was the main target of the 2006 Israeli attacks on Lebanon. Regime change in Damascus was the key objective. Tel Aviv’s 2006 defeat in Lebanon by Hezbollah and its allies spared Syria from an attack and probably prevented a broader regional war involving Iran and NATO.

It is after the 2006 events in Lebanon that Washington took the initiative to negotiate with Damascus in the diplomatic arena. These attempts lasted up until 2011 and were aimed at de-linking Syria from Iran and the Resistance Bloc or "Axis of Resistance." During this diplomatic engagement, which attempted to distance Damascus from Tehran, Tom Lantos, Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives visited Damascus and warned the Syrian regime to join ranks with Saudi Arabia and the United States against Iran. Lantos threatened President Al-Assad while intimating that a few years down the road that there would be a new geo-political reality: "Sunni Muslims and not Iran under Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will be in control in the region, and it is to the advantage of Damascus to know which side to be on."

2007 was slated for an Israeli rematch against Lebanon that never happened. Very telling is the fact that talks of war were also aimed at Syria too. Washington and Tel Aviv also realized that after 2006 they could no longer launch separate wars against Syria and in Iran. Damascus and Tehran would not fight in isolation from one another. A war against Syria would equate to a war with Iran and vice-versa.



http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/02/al-qaeda-backs-us-regime-change-in.html

February 12, 2012 - It is now a matter of established public record that the "Libyan rebels" the US, through the UN and NATO, funded, armed, trained, recognized politically, and even provided special forces and air support for, were in fact led by the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), listed by the US State Department (page 1) as a "Foreign Terrorist Organization." Two West Point reports confirm that LIFG was formally joined with Al Qaeda with many of its top leaders constituting the core of Al Qaeda's upper echelons. These reports also confirm that LIFG fighters were operational in both Afghanistan and Iraq, killing US and British troops and that the vast majority of their fighters were recruited from the Libyan cities of Benghazi and Darnah. In 2011, it would be these two cities that served as the epicenter of NATO-backed resistance against Qaddafi.

More recently it was exposed by French independent reporter Thierry Meyssan of VoltaireNet.org that LIFG commander Abdul Hakim Belhaj has left the NATO bombed city of Tripoli and is now directing the "Free Syrian Army" from the border of Turkey (a NATO member since 1952).

In the wake of growing international anger toward Wall Street, London, and its NATO forces, led by Russia and China's vetoing of their UN Security Council resolution designed to tip off another foreign military intervention, this time in Syria, the corporate media is now reporting that Al Qaeda has called on its supporters to "join the uprising against Assad's "pernicious, cancerous regime."" We are expected to believe that Al Qaeda - allegedly depraved, beheading, civilian bombing, trade tower-toppling modern-day Huns - had pinned their hopes on the UNSC to resolve the Syrian conflict through the mechanisms of "international rule of law" and are only just now mobilizing their forces to act after the "disappointing" Russian and Chinese veto. It is a narrative as bizarre as it is contradictory.

#103
blinkandwheez really great work. I'm having trouble getting my head around the arab spring being created by the US government but that NY times article is blatant as are the wikileaks cables. furthermore, the narrative makes sense based on what the arab spring has become, which is a military dictatorship in Egypt, imperialist wars in Libya, Syria, and building up to Iran and a great war to fix this crisis.

Could you expand on the overarching goals of the arab spring for US foreign poicy, how well they went according to plan, and what the role of Al-Qaeda is for US foreign policy (what's the deal with 9/11 :costanza

Thanks you're kinda blowing my mind here, tell me wat to think some more plz
#104

babyhueypnewton posted:
blinkandwheez really great work. I'm having trouble getting my head around the arab spring being created by the US government but that NY times article is blatant as are the wikileaks cables. furthermore, the narrative makes sense based on what the arab spring has become, which is a military dictatorship in Egypt, imperialist wars in Libya, Syria, and building up to Iran and a great war to fix this crisis.

Could you expand on the overarching goals of the arab spring for US foreign poicy, how well they went according to plan, and what the role of Al-Qaeda is for US foreign policy (what's the deal with 9/11 :costanza

Thanks you're kinda blowing my mind here, tell me wat to think some more plz


i think the idea that the entire arab spring is a u.s. engineered phenomenon is an exaggeration (but, maybe, a useful one) - remember that discontent was not expressed only in the nations reviled by the u.s., but there were quickly and violently suppressed or otherwise discouraged outbursts in regional allies, bahrain, oman, saudi arabia, etc.

further i think it's also really important to understand the role the discontent of landless egyptian peasants played in the revoltion, which mahmoud habashi & samir amin assert in this fantastic & elucidating roundtable were the fundamental revolutionary base of the egyptian regime change

egypt is really important in understanding the broader ideological terrain i think, because the roots of the current conflicts date back to a degree since nasser - saudi arabia & the zionist regime both collaborated with british colonial forces against egypt, and despite whatever anti-zionist posturing there has been from the saudi camp their stances on foreign policy and collaboration with the u.s. empire express a total congruity, a covert alliance

we need to remember the muslim brotherhood were banned not only by mubarak but nasser too. while their roots may be in a populist and socially concerned islam, they have (as samir amin insists in the link above) maintained a base of support largely in the urban upper middle class of egypt - which you can see plainly in their embrace of naked capitalism

then there's al-qaeda. whether there is a single unified organization operating under this name i think is debatable, but we can use the term to denote the many bands of militant salafists operating throughout the middle east. if the muslim brotherhood are the pleasant, peaceful face of reactionary islam, the currents of violent salafism are the darker reality - they function as death squads, a militia supporting the global counterrevolution and eating away progressive forces with their nato and gulf state supplied resources

the ideologies of these organizations are painted as "fundamentalist" but i think this is wrong. what characterizes this bloc (the authoritarian islamist gulf cooperation council, the muslim brotherhood, the global jihad movement) is rather what babyfinland condemns upthread - an anachronistic appropriation of the contemporary nation state as a vehicle for their reactionary islam, rather than the world-system transcending networks of plurality that we can identify in schools of sunni islam (but i'm just paraphrasing things babyfinland has expressed, i'm not nearly as knowledgable on this subject as i'd like to be)

but basically what this all comes down to is the fact that we're currently experiencing a very fundamental change in our modern world-system. augmented by the spectre of financial collapse, the united states and to an extent nato are a hegemon in decline. immanuel wallerstein identified that an empire with unparalleled global hegemony will ultimately value openness in the world system - which we can see clearly with the allegiances it has held with forces that ostensibly it opposes, namely mujahadeen movements in the middle east, or long time trading partners like the reactionary gulf states, and the relationships it fostered with taliban supporting pakistan, or the implicit backing of iraq during its conflict with iran. i think what we're seeing is the aftermath of such an unlikely political bloc - now that the western position as global comprador is no longer completely secure, its concerns may no longer be the number one concern of this unlikely political allegiance, their intentions may ultimately become secondary to their only friends, lest they lose them.

pepe escobar recently drew attention to the fact that the iraq invasion occurred after saddam abandoned the u.s. dollar as the currency of payment for iraq's oil. maybe in an older world where u.s. global hegemony was secured, this might be tolerated - when this is no longer the case, any transgression from previous cooperation is too big a threat to let slide.

what our world-system is becoming is one that is basically multipolar. rather than dominant few nation states we are used to, political allegiances like brics, celac & the gcc present a new socioeconomic landscape. when a few western states announce an embargo, this is no longer an act of any real consequence - the nations which rely heavily on iranian oil like china, india or russia will continue trading without hesitancy. the u.s. still peddles its accusations that the nations it opposes are 'isolated' ... the exact opposite is slowly starting to be true.

but i haven't talked about one of the most important factors at work here - what we can call the 'axis of resistance'. here, i think we really need this essay i posted in my negarestani thread. the networks operating against imperialism in iran, syria, iraq and lebanon are engaged in anti-imperialist struggle that is uniquely powerful and extremely adaptable. i can't think of any other recent events that have so clearly and completely sabotaged imperialist plans as the complete failure of the israeli invasion of lebanon, or the democratic transformation of contemporary iraq into a majority shia state.

i haven't read them (yet) but amin, arrighi, gunder frank & wallerstein authored two books together that seem like they deal with a lot of what i'm talking about here. also, i don't have nearly as good a grasp of middle eastern politics here as some posters here (looking at u babyfinland & discipline) so i wouldn't place as much value in my words as i would theirs, haha.

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#105
totally agree with u blenkenchee

i'll add that egypt had a lot of labor organization among the proletariat as well, and has had had strikes going on every day since 2006...

like always in the arab world, everything is centered on egypt. while its horrible whats happened in bahrain, libya, iraq, palestine, etc., the real prize here is egypt. if egypt makes it through, there's a lot of hope for everyone else as well. this was why nasser was such a big deal, and still is for a lot of people.

one thing though is that i dont really see anyone in the middle east as anti-imperialist in the strict sense of the term. not iran, or hezbollah, or the taliban. i think a distinction can, and should, be made between imperialist operations upon a sovereign territory, and authentically anti-imperialist programs which would have to exclude the aforementioned organizations. i do understand your point, and by the same token that we need to consider imperialism as behavioral rather than essential to any given political actor, anti-imperialist action can be taken by a less than perfect organizations that are in place

also i dont think the US actually wants to do anything about iran. we need them to help us out in afghanistan and iraq, and certainly don't want to invade them. the inefficacy of the sanctions demonstrate that its all theater. and why? to appease israel, for one, which is in desperate need of some unifying political two minute hate. it can also help obama win back some liberal voters.

what the US is mainly concerned about in syria is actually russia, and i think that was the case in libya too. as its losing its hegemonic position, its trying to drag everyone else down with it in order to maintain a strong a relative position as possible to its rivals

Edited by babyfinland ()

#106
yeah iirc there have been huge levels discontent among egyptian peasants lately because the current government haven't been able to keep up grain subsidies to nearly the same level they were under mubarak. i do think there's a genuine potential for a proletarian or at least labour oriented government in egypt, the base of support seems to exists at least, but it won't be easy
#107
one thing though: pakistan (read: ISI) basically created the taliban itself, with CIA help. they closed the durand line to pashtun nomads, which basically split the nomads' traditional territory in half, forcing them to become semi-sedentary and fight over scarce agricultural land with farmers who had government (read: soviet) backing. these are the people who were trained and armed to fight the soviet occupation, and now fight NATO. ISI has always relied on afghanistan as a site of strategic depth against india.
#108

blinkandwheeze posted:
yeah iirc there have been huge levels discontent among egyptian peasants lately because the current government haven't been able to keep up grain subsidies to nearly the same level they were under mubarak. i do think there's a genuine potential for a proletarian or at least labour oriented government in egypt, the base of support seems to exists at least, but it won't be easy



wow, it was bad under mubarak even.

#109
and i agree with your point about iran, above all i think the u.s. is just concerned with maintaining its stability and any major confrontation would be extremely costly and with few rewards.

i don't know as much about the workings of the isi as i should but as i understand it they were also responsible for securing the escape of taliban leadership across durand line before the invasion, leaving the opposition forces fragmented

i can understand your point about anti-imperialism, but the fact remains that when given the necessity of material conditions, this axis is capable of mobilizing a radical opposition. the networks are in place and deeply entrenched, and i really do think there is tremendous potential in the extra-statist organization carried out by hezbollah and groups in iran

also i mean i just like that negarestani thing a lot

Edited by blinkandwheeze ()

#110

babyfinland posted:
wow, it was bad under mubarak even.


damn http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/farmers-struggle-reap-harvest-revolution

Among the issues affecting Haggag and millions of other small farmers were a shortage of state-subsidized fertilizers, which were often resold on the black market at high prices.

“While factories sell 50kg of fertilizer to the state at LE30 ($4.97), we end up paying at least LE150 ($24.85) for the same amount,” said Haggag. “That is because the system is endemically corrupt.”

He accused employees of state-backed local cooperatives of embezzlement. “The factories do not produce enough, and local employees do not sell all of the fertilizer they receive,” Haggag said.

“Instead, they sell part of it to black market merchants, who play with the prices at will. Corruption is not only at the higher level of government: it is at every level.”

Another chronic problem described by Haggag was the lack of clean water, including state failure to fulfil its responsibility to do annual maintenance work on irrigation channels.

“We have to pay for the cleaning and maintenance ourselves, even though this should be covered by our 60LE ($9.94) annual irrigation tax,” said Haggag.

“Worse still, the water allocated for irrigation in Daqahliya is often sewage water from Cairo and Alexandria,” he added. “Even the country’s golf courses get cleaner water than we do.”

According to Haggag, seeds were also deficient while farmers have not been provided with the necessary amount of reliable seeds to plant for a good harvest.

“Farmers can’t get enough seeds for our crops from state-subsidized seed factories,” he said. “Again, we are forced to resort to the over-priced black market to stay afloat. Otherwise, we can’t produce enough to survive.”

#111
relevant

Imad Fawzi Shueibi examines the reasons and consequences of Russia’s recent position at the Security Council. Moscow’s backing of Syria is not a posture but the result of an in-depth analysis of the shifting global balance of power. The current crisis will crystallize into a new world configuration, which, from the unipolar model inherited after the collapse of the USSR, will gradually evolve towards a multipolar system. Inevitably, this transition will plunge the world into a period of geopolitical turbulence the repercussions of which are scrutinized by the author.


http://www.voltairenet.org/Moscow-and-the-formation-of-The

#112
this is a bit of a tangent but i read an interesting paper a while back about the biophysical/thermoeconomic limits to a genuine wallersteinian transition from US-as-hegemon to China-as-hegemon along the lines of previous Dutch->English->American transitions. this isn't anything super shocking, just a repudiation of guys like Arrighi who don't engage with the actually-existing economy.

anyway, one of the points the author made (i can't remember where i found the paper, i'll try to dig it up if anyone's interested) was that there's never been a point in the development of the world-system where the locus of military power (USA) was so geographically and politically distant from the locus of manufacturing/physical economic power (China). when you add the limits of growth preventing China from fully assuming the role of hegemon, you end up with a multipolar world with these kind of schizo-hegemons who can't reconcile their self-identity (and genuine power in one sphere) with their actual situations, which is sort of terrifying but at the same time seems to provide room for Something Else
#113

shennong posted:
this is a bit of a tangent but i read an interesting paper a while back about the biophysical/thermoeconomic limits to a genuine wallersteinian transition from US-as-hegemon to China-as-hegemon along the lines of previous Dutch->English->American transitions. this isn't anything super shocking, just a repudiation of guys like Arrighi who don't engage with the actually-existing economy.

anyway, one of the points the author made (i can't remember where i found the paper, i'll try to dig it up if anyone's interested) was that there's never been a point in the development of the world-system where the locus of military power (USA) was so geographically and politically distant from the locus of manufacturing/physical economic power (China). when you add the limits of growth preventing China from fully assuming the role of hegemon, you end up with a multipolar world with these kind of schizo-hegemons who can't reconcile their self-identity (and genuine power in one sphere) with their actual situations, which is sort of terrifying but at the same time seems to provide room for Something Else



I can't help but notice you left the origin of global empire, Spain, out of your trajectory, and that New World -> Spain is pretty far, especially given technological proportions

#114
[account deactivated]
#115

babyfinland posted:
I can't help but notice you left the origin of global empire, Spain, out of your trajectory, and that New World -> Spain is pretty far, especially given technological proportions



actually come to think of it this is puzzling to me as well. i'm pretty sure that is the actual wallersteinian schema for progression of the loci of capitalism (starts with dutch), although it's been a long-ass time since i engaged seriously with world systems theory. it's possible the spanish empire is considered a precapitalist primitive accumulation stage rather than a capitalist manufacturing-oriented stage, i don't know.

regardless, i think the case differs between spain/new world and US/China in the sense that the new world production was equivalent to a colonial possession corresponding to, say, India under British hegemony, whereas China is an independent locus of capitalism, but i'm not super sure about that

#116
afaik, Spain did serve as some sort of 'vanishing mediator' between feudalism and capitalism, to speak very generally. The primitive accumulation from New Spain caused the ascension of manufacturer powers in Europe, the Dutch, English, and (iirc) French generally siphoned off capital as soon as it came to Spain, and the Spanish did not develop bourgeois power anywhere near as quickly as their (predatory) European counterparts.

it's interesting to note, though, that the Franciscans and the other Catholic sects were developing liberal-democratic theory in response to Spanish imperial drama, in particular I think of the case of Bartolomew de las Casas, who through a lifetime of frustration with the crown, began to develop some truly parliamentarian ideas by the end of his life..
#117
parliamentary organizaition had always existed in Spain, particularly in the more mercantile kingdoms of Aragon and Navarre. It's true though that opposition to the crown took the form of parliamentaryism, such as with de las casas or piedrola the soldier-prophet. i don't see this as expressions of anti-imperialism though
#118

babyfinland posted:
parliamentary organizaition had always existed in Spain, particularly in the more mercantile kingdoms of Aragon and Navarre. It's true though that opposition to the crown took the form of parliamentaryism, such as with de las casas or piedrola the soldier-prophet. i don't see this as expressions of anti-imperialism though



i'm not talking about anti-imperialism as much as a new mode arising from Spanish imperialism. in the case of de las Casas, it wasnt just parliamentary organization, but a philosophical stance against the crown as ideation

#119

Crow posted:
i'm not talking about anti-imperialism as much as a new mode arising from Spanish imperialism. in the case of de las Casas, it wasnt just parliamentary organization, but a philosophical stance against the crown as ideation


also wallerstein notes that the solidification of our modern world-system occurs with the setler decolonization of the americas, rather than the commonly held understanding that these movements were antisystemic - the global hegemon continued to benefit from already existing trade networks but no longer needed to keep up with the costs of administration or military presence

#120
http://syria-tribune.com/en/index.php/our-articles/80-homs-media-war

On Alarabiya news channel (KSA), in this report, Ammar Alwawi, a member of FSA, said that “every soldier and officer in the Syrian army is a legitimate target for FSA”, and that “FSA will hit Damascus, all of Damascus”, before the channel presenter corrected him: “You mean military and security centers, not civilian targets, don’t you?”. He concluded: “We are declaring an armed movement all over the country.”


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/NB15Ak03.html

How poignant that the first anniversary of a true Arab pro-democracy movement in the Persian Gulf - then ruthlessly crushed - falls on February 14, when Valentine's Day is celebrated in the West. Talk about a doomed love affair.

And how does Washington honor this tragic love story? By resuming arms sales to the repressive Sunni al-Khalifa dynasty in power in Bahrain.

So just to recap; United States President Barack Obama told Syria's President Bashar al-Assad to "step aside and allow a democratic transition to proceed immediately" while King Hamad al-Khalifa gets new toys to crack down on his subversively pro-democratic subjects.

Is this a case of cognitive dissonance? Of course not; after all Syria is supported by Russia and China at the United Nations Security Council while Bahrain hosts the US's Fifth Fleet - the defender of the "free world" against those evil Iranians who want to shut down the Strait of Hormuz.


http://www.voltairenet.org/Endgame-in-the-Middle-East

On 7 February, a large Russian delegation, including the highest ranking foreign intelligence officials, arrived in Damascus where it was greeted by cheering crowds, aware that Russia’s return to the international scene marked the end of their nightmare. The capital, but also Aleppo, the second largest city, were decked out in white, blue, red, and people marched behind banners written in Cyrillic. At the presidential palace, the Russian delegation joined those of other states, including Turkey, Iran and Lebanon. A series of agreements were reached to re-establish peace. Syria has returned 49 military instructors captured by the Syrian army. Turkey intervened to obtain the release of the abducted Iranian engineers and pilgrims, including those held by the French (incidentally, Lieutenant Tlass who sequestered them on behalf of the DGSE was liquidated). Turkey has ceased all support for the "Free Syrian Army", closed down its facilities (except the one on the NATO base at Incirlik), and turned over its commander, Colonel Riad el-Assad. Russia, which is the guarantor of the agreements, has been allowed to reactivate the former Soviet listening base on Mount Qassioum.

The next day, the US State Department informed the Syrian opposition in exile that it could no longer count on its military aid. Realizing that they have betrayed their country to no avail, the Syrian National Council members went in search of new sponsors. One of them even went so far as to write to Benjamin Netanyahu asking him to invade Syria.

After a period of two days required for the implementation of the agreements, not only the national armies of Syria, but also Lebanon, stormed the bases of the Wahhabi Legion. In northern Lebanon, a massive arsenal was seized in the town of Tripoli and four officers were taken prisoner in Akkar, in a school abandoned by UNRWA and transformed into a military HQ. In Syria, General Assef Shawkat in person commanded the operations. At least 1,500 fighters were captured, including a French colonel of the DGSE technical communication services, and more than a thousand people were killed. At this stage it is not possible to determine how many among the victims are foreign mercenaries, how many are Syrians cooperating with foreign forces, and how many are civilians trapped in the beleaguered city.

Lebanon and Syria have restored their sovereignty over their entire territory.

Intellectuals are debating whether Vladimir Putin might have made a mistake in protecting Syria at the risk of a diplomatic crisis with the United States. The question is wrongly put. Having reconstituted its forces for years and asserted itself today on the international stage, Moscow has put an end to two decades of a unipolar world order, permitting Washington to expand its hegemony to achieve global domination. The choice was not between siding with tiny Syria or with the mighty United States, but between allowing the first world power to destroy yet another government or upsetting the balance of power to create a more just international order in which Russia has a say.