#41

ilmdge posted:

courtesy snipe

#42
[account deactivated]
#43

ilmdge posted:

#44

ilmdge posted:

yooge if true

#45

ilmdge posted:

mentally ill internet people's outrage over petty offenses are, i claim, partly driving the large reactionary movement currently flourishing in this country. millions of people are saying "fuck off" and voting trump. but theyre (the offended people) loud enough and liberals are soft enough that they all agree to follow this contingents whims



there is a train of thought on a certain LF offsite that will go unnamed that activism threads are offensive to sadbrains because they are reminders of their fail aids

#46

Panopticon posted:

there is a train of thought on a certain LF offsite that will go unnamed that activism threads are offensive to sadbrains because they are reminders of their fail aids


unfortunately that's not even unique, i've witnessed IRL "how dare anyone do direct action when I, as a depressed person, cannot." this was also used as an attack against someone who has struggled deeply with depression and the whole while continued to be one of the most excellent and prolific activists I've known.

there's some important discussions to be had about ableism in communities but like anything else that isn't The Revolutionary Science of Marxism-Leninism it is ridden with a lot of ridiculous obstructionist bullshit

#47

shriekingviolet posted:

unfortunately that's not even unique, i've witnessed IRL "how dare anyone do direct action when I, as a depressed person, cannot." this was also used as an attack against someone who has struggled deeply with depression and the whole while continued to be one of the most excellent and prolific activists I've known.

there's some important discussions to be had about ableism in communities but like anything else that isn't The Revolutionary Science of Marxism-Leninism it is ridden with a lot of ridiculous obstructionist bullshit



i think it's incredibly selfish, almost egotistical, that a minority's feelings should be more important than the majority's welfare

#48
[account deactivated]
#49
[account deactivated]
#50
don't worry guys, when trump gets elected in november, obama will cash in the eight years of political capital he's been saving and refuse to relinquish power, initiating instead the marxist black liberation revolution we've been waiting so long for
#51
there is something to be said for making demonstrations safer. some people around here were saying that if you dont go down directly to the latest scene of a cop shooting and toss a bottle you're fake. whereas other people were saying 'i am unable to do that because of my anxiety or precarious legal situation so i will be at the tamer protest the next day'
#52
yeah there's no issue with that and its important to get people involved at a level of engagement they're comfortable with instead of alienating people with too hardcore for you machismo. the most radical (active, effective) groups that I've personally engaged with use that attitude to build support infrastructure, someone needs to stay home to call the lawyers/peoples families when shit goes south.

the problem is when that attitude leaps to the other absurd extreme and someone demands that because they, personally, will not do something, no one else should either. its disruptive spook shit masquerading as radicalism, as usual. radical direct inaction.

as always, the priority is to look at what actual, material ends you are trying to achieve, and being open to multiple fronts that can contribute to achieving them.
#53

ilmdge posted:

mentally ill internet people's outrage over petty offenses are, i claim, partly driving the large reactionary movement currently flourishing in this country. millions of people are saying "fuck off" and voting trump. but theyre (the offended people) loud enough and liberals are soft enough that they all agree to follow this contingents whims



is the reasonable explanation here really that people are being pushed to far-right positions because they just happen to be deeply sensitive to the words of some 17 year old on tumblr

or is it that individuals belonging to the far-right are framing their positions as a reasonable response to the degeneration of society for rhetorical points

#54
it's that broad swaths of olds with idiotic, back-dated opinions are tired of not being allowed to say them loudly at work, believe that this is an important issue, and have modified their entire worldview accordingly
#55
bernie won michigan and people are upset about it or something.
#56
Due to unforeseen events, I'll keep this thread open for another week.
#57

Edited by dipshit420 ()

#58
I follow Corey Robin and he had this to say, it seems debatable

For everyone who is focused solely on the question of Sanders winning or delegate counts: I want to win this as much as anyone. It sucks to lose. I've done it more times than I care to remember, and believe me, it's no picnic. And, as I've been saying over and over again, I think we have a genuine shot at this. But lest we get too caught up in the question of delegate counts, which Sanders is still behind on, we've got to remind ourselves that there is a much more important long-term battle going on here. Not merely to gut the Democratic Party as it is, but also to educate, agitate, and organize. The left loves social movements: I do, too, of course. But social movements don't happen in a political vacuum; they're not immune to the mood and medium of electoral politics. There's nothing quite like a presidential campaign for taking pots and kettles long simmering on the left's back burner and bringing them to a furious boil. We may not like that, but it's a fact. That means two things. First, we do have to remain focused on winning primaries and delegate counts. It's only so long as there is a viable campaign that we have the opportunity for a conversation on such a massive scale. There's a group of leftists who think the revolution lies in small conversations in socialist study groups and reading circles, that the way to radicalize is by "talking to people" -- which really means talking at people -- in the absence of some galvanizing question that brings those people to the table. Anyone who's selling you that line is either out of touch or trying to sign you up for his classes. The faulty assumption here is to think you can just get people to think and argue and reflect in a vacuum, without some real taste of power in the here and now. That's not how it works. But, second, and here is where these leftists do have a point, what we are trying to do here is much more than win a nomination in a party that is pretty rotten and compromised. We're trying agitate the body politic: not to tell people their interests (that they usually know) but to persuade them that if they act collectively, they can get those interests. No matter what happens, we've already begun that work. And what really matters, long-term, is what the early syndicalists called the "militant minority" -- all those legions of invisible activists, organizers, thinkers, agitators, people we've never heard of, who we don't even know exist -- who are just coming into their own during this campaign, who will one day, in our lifetimes, make a different world.

#59

There's a group of leftists who think the revolution lies in small conversations in socialist study groups and reading circles, that the way to radicalize is by "talking to people" -- which really means talking at people -- in the absence of some galvanizing question that brings those people to the table. Anyone who's selling you that line is either out of touch or trying to sign you up for his classes.

what actual socialist reading groups believe that they are going to read so many books that they will figure out how to make revolution? Another DSA-brand smear of the "radical" left

Edited by swampman ()

#60
there's people who are gonna try to get you to read Lenin... those people probably bought stock at Lenin's publisher's IPO and are trying to shift a few more pallets of "the highest stage of capitalism" so they can plump out their wallets
#61
yeah corey robin (hannah arendt fanboi) and doug henwood are basically DSA-ish left-liberals and it can get pretty annoying
#62
but but but my jacobin reading groups
#63
If we're going to discuss socialist book clubs, we should probably merge this thread with that other one dealing with learned helplessness.
#64

aerdil posted:

yeah corey robin (hannah arendt fanboi) and doug henwood are basically DSA-ish left-liberals and it can get pretty annoying


yeah H-wood obviously has no idea what he is talking about, and Robin's rhetoric becomes more and more like that of a delusional fan every day. I guess some folks need to believe in something

#65
I reckon the post has been deleted, now class do we see where US election related hysteria leads us? also there's a lot of racist comments floating around right now under the guise of figuring out those pesky demographics that aren't voting Bernie
#66
"well, it's just that black people are too loyal as an electorate"
#67
im watching http://www.livenewschat.eu/democratic-debate-live-stream/ and i just learned the word "hispandering" is real
#68
vilerat's mom made an appearance at the dem debate. or so i've heard.
#69
Yeah they played a clip of Vilerat's mom yelling about Hillary and the whole crowd booed Vilerat's mom and her dead son who had a bad tattoo.
#70
the DSA would be a lot better if they just did hard work of criticizing their own past decisions. i can't remember if i posted this before:

DSA Salutes President François Hollande Victory and Opposes Austerity Politics
Posted on 05.10.12

The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) welcomes the recent European‐wide popular rejection of the austerity politics of the 1%. In particular, DSA salutes the victory of socialist François Hollande in the French presidential election. Hollande ran on a platform that rejected the austerity policies of massive budget cuts pushed by the lords of finance. Such policies only serve to prolong both the Great Recession and the pain it visits upon working people and the poor. Hollande’s program calls for a financial transactions tax and higher marginal tax rates on the rich to increase investment in education, including the hiring of 60,000 new teachers. His platform also calls for a major raise in the minimum wage and for lowering, from age 62 to 60, the age at which manual laborers can retire and receive full public pensions.. To achieve such policies, the broad left must now win a majority in the June French parliamentary elections and stand firm on its pre‐election pledges. The fight against the global capitalist politics of austerity must be truly international; thus the United States left must pressure the Obama administration to work with Hollande to restart the European economy and to propose similar programs in the United States that would highlight the complete failure of austerity policies.

DSA recognizes that European (and American) bankers and bond vigilantes will resist such modest efforts to promote both equity and economic growth in France and elsewhere. The Economist magazine termed the moderate socialist president “rather dangerous” because he “genuinely believes in the need to create a fairer society.” (!) And the fate of Hollande’s program will not be decided solely in France. The broad left must not only regain control of the French parliament in June elections; a revived German left needs to overturn the bi‐partisan German elite consensus favoring the politics of austerity. Electoral victories by the broad left in upcoming German state elections could move the German political dynamic leftwards. A truly equitable response to the European economic crisis depends upon Germany pushing the European Central Bank (ECB) to drop its obsession with a phantom inflationary threat and adopt policies that would restore long‐term economic growth. If the ECB used its borrowing power to exchange existing sovereign debt for ECB‐guaranteed Eurobonds, then the fiscal crisis in Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal and Ireland could be eased, thus allowing for the adoption of full employment growth policies. The undemocratic terms of the European monetary union must be renegotiated; as is, the European Union treaty agreements prioritize fighting inflation over promoting full employment and social justice in each member country. Thus, the people of Europe are being crucified on a cross of the Euro.

Any Keynesian economist can explain the irrationality of this politics of austerity ‐‐ a government cannot cut its way out of a deep recession, either in the US or Europe. But the battle of ideas is won in the streets, not in the halls of think‐tanks. Resistance to the politics of austerity has spread from the youthful indignados of Spain to the general European electorate. In the same week as the French presidential elections, the center‐right government of the Netherlands collapsed in the face of widespread protest; the British Labor Party won a major victory in local elections; and mass protests threatened the collapse of right‐wing governments in the Czech Republic and Romania. On the very day of the French elections, the Greek electorate rejected both major, pro‐austerity parties, the conservative New Democrats and the patronage‐driven, neo‐liberal “socialist” PASOK. This led not only to the emergence of “The True Left Party” (Syriza), which significantly outpolled PASOK, but also to massive gains for far‐right, anti‐immigrant parties.

DSA recognizes that right‐wing populism represents an alternative, noxious form of popular response to capitalist crisis. We see the politics of Le Pen in France, the Freedom Party in the Netherlands, and the Golden Dawn in Greece replicated in conservative efforts here at home to blame the plight of downwardly mobile native workers on immigrants, rather than on the corporate elites who outsourced workers’ jobs. In the United States, the Occupy movement may organize mass protest at both the Republican and Democratic convention, which is all to the good, but only a popular left speaking to the needs of working people of all races can forestall the rise of right‐wing populism.

In the U.S., as in Europe, DSA believes that only a combination of street heat and grassroots progressive electoral activity can displace the bi‐partisan corporate consensus on economic policy. The bi‐partisan, neo‐liberal obsession with balancing‐the‐budget at a time of rampant unemployment threatens to turn the Great Recession into a true Great Depression. And as in the Great Depression, only mass protest from below can force the political class to adopt policies that restore full employment and a modicum of social equality. It is in this spirit, and in solidarity with a revived global left, that DSA recommits itself to building popular protest movements against austerity while simultaneously working in the 2012 elections on behalf of grassroots progressive candidates who reject the politics of austerity that make working people pay for the blunders of corporate America.

#71
when you're trying to secretly radicalize people who are Sanders fans by watching him crash against the rocks of the system it's easy to forget that he is a 'hardhat' imperialist who represents the dying labor aristocracy and not actually outside the system. i do think black people have become integrated in a way that black politics are no longer coherent as something 'intersecting' with class politics if that ever was the case but I apologize to black people for using not voting for Bernie the Bomber as evidence of that need more LF cynicism in my life and need to return to the discipline of Marxism-Leninism
#72

blinkandwheeze posted:

undefined


#1 for me

#73
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/09/bernie-sanders-promises-level-playing-field-on-israel-palestine/
I think this is encouraging, at least accusations of anti-semitism won't work very well against a Jewish guy.
#74

Red_Canadian posted:

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/09/bernie-sanders-promises-level-playing-field-on-israel-palestine/I think this is encouraging, at least accusations of anti-semitism won't work very well against a Jewish guy.



lol

#75
certainly norman finkelstein braved that storm
#76
it would be really cool and good and would own if we had a whole bunch of zionist christians and jews in the u.s. unironically calling the candidate/president a "fake jew"
#77
#78

le_nelson_mandela_face posted:



*prints out, shreds and stuffs in a pipe* *smokes*

#79
hillary clinton is such establishment filth lol
#80
“It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS in the 1980s. And because of both President and Mrs. Reagan, in particular, Mrs. Reagan, we started national conversation when before no one would talk about it, no one wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something that really appreciated, with her very effective, low-key advocacy, but it penetrated the public conscience and people began to say ‘Hey, we have to do something about this too.’”