NoFreeWill posted:Crow posted:.custom278112{color:#FCC895 !important; background-color:#0B5951 !important; }VoxNihili posted:.custom278110{color:#000000 !important; background-color:#D8D8D8 !important; }shriekingviolet posted:.custom278106{color:#FCC895 !important; background-color:#0B5951 !important; }VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.
the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christthe post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countries
got any evidence of these claims? and does your evidence rely on the fact that bourgeois ideology, whether remnant, not yet addressed, or imported by imperial powers, doesn't instantly cease to exist with the establishment of socialism, and in fact is in direct contradiction to socialism and the power of the communist party? oh and
so racism in communist countries is merely a remnant of capitalism? and racism that happened before capitalism doesn't count because "the current system of racism is intrinsically tied up with capitalism"?
yes its not like capitalism started with the advent of the enslaving of africans and the extermination of the indigenous peoples of Americas, racism somehow just existed eternally, and wasn't formulated in imperial Western European courts to bear the ideological brunt of colonization
Crow posted:VoxNihili posted:shriekingviolet posted:VoxNihili posted:Crow posted:
Hello i believe in the 'freestanding' and ""independent"" features of a class-determined imperial system of national oppression, rooted in capitalism but somehow outside of it, I'm a Marxist, AND
I
VOte.
if you dont think really poor black people have it tougher in the US than equally poor white people than youve lost touch with reality. there are serious race issues in the US that go just as deep as issues of class. thank you for your time.the point is that these are all interdependent factors that mutually extend from the monster logic of capital. no one is saying that race isn't an issue and i'm seriously having difficulty imagining at how you arrived at this conclusion from what's been posted. any true marxist will immediately acknowledge that the racial vector of oppression is a significant, real, and heinous thing, but that has nothing to do with the lie of its contemporary incarnation being a freestanding structure independent of capitalist hegemony, y'know, the thing that was the actual focus of crow's post, a propaganda line formulated to divide and neutralize effective dissent and opposition. learn yourself some black panthers, jesus christ
the post i initially responded to was "in brazil, "white" is defined not by the color of your skin, but by the numbers on your tax return....also everywhere else"
also, the whole argument that racism is NECESSARILY based in capitalism is sort of derailed by one crazy fact: there are racists and racist institutions in communist countriesgot any evidence of these claims? and does your evidence rely on the fact that bourgeois ideology, whether remnant, not yet addressed, or imported by imperial powers, doesn't instantly cease to exist with the establishment of socialism, and in fact is in direct contradiction to socialism and the power of the communist party? oh and
this image got pulled for some reason from facebook, so here it is again
Tsarist racism was actually quite a bit different than the modern form of bourgeois racism now found in Eastern Europe
Crow posted:Fuck Boat
talk about a blast from the past.
Crow posted:anyway the point is that what we consider 'racism' is a modern phenomenon that is tied to the development of the capitalist mode of production. i don't really have any idea what you might think racism is supposed to be outside of it. like greek historians referring to different tribes 3000 years ago? even the feudalist crusades were of a different character, more of a protogenic variety than directly comparable to today's monopoly-capitalist world racism. even the way that racism functioned in socialist countries was anchored in a bourgeois worldview, and predictably the socialist bloc fell along these fractured racist lines into capitalism, and not into some different sort of racism born in a different mode of production
agreed.
thirdplace posted:also lol @ the chuckfucks who apparently, somehow, own a valid copyright on 150 year old socialist texts forcing marxists.org to take them down
actually it's about ethics in translation services