#41
Mike Nelson here.
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#42
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good ol krink with the liberal common sense appeal to science post. thank you krink for bringing some all too rare perspective to this forum.
#43
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discipline posted:

I believe that half the world's population (i.e. men) should get vasectomies before they have opinions on childbearing


me and my brother, who are the only male heirs to our family, both got vasectomies and both of us have no children.
but neither of us have opinions as far as childbearing goes other then babies come from storks.

#44
Mike Nelson here.
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if you are afraid of having kids, don't have sex. it's not rocket science people. that's what i do.
#45
Online
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but are you afraid of having kids?
#46
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ilmdge posted:

but are you afraid of having kids?


id be afraid since everybody is trying to tell me that i need to kill em

#47
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there's a shit ton of racism and misogyny on both sides of the debate. I'm interested (in theory and, hopefully soon in practice) in making sure that every woman who wants children is not encouraged to abort - because she is too poor, too single, too black or w/e - and instead feels supported and provided for as a mother.
#48
[account deactivated]
#49
[account deactivated]
#50
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yeah, i once knew a catholic priest who was alright with abortion cause of the generally poor quality of life of unwanted babies
#51
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discipline posted:

that's the thing, if they were so concerned about life then they'd make sure that every single one is valued in society. instead we have prisons and unemployment, guantanamo and drones, tax cuts for the wealthy and people still homeless from katrina


they are valued... they're valuable because they need to fill our prisons, military, minimum wage service jobs, etc.

#52
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if all sex is rape, does that make us all rape babies?
#53
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HenryKrinkle posted:

fetuses within the first & second trimester have no sense of pain or awareness and third trimester abortions are done in rare & extraordinary circumstances in which the woman is at risk of serious harm and/or the baby has deformities or illness that will kill it soon after being born anyways.

this isn't hard.


but i sure am

#54
hi
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EmanuelaOrlandi posted:

good ol krink with the liberal common sense appeal to science post. thank you krink for bringing some all too rare perspective to this forum.



could you direct me to some Marxist Approved biological texts on the subject then?

#55
Kurdt
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the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one
- friederich "spock" engels
#56
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eggplants posted:

there's a shit ton of racism and misogyny on both sides of the debate. I'm interested (in theory and, hopefully soon in practice) in making sure that every woman who wants children is not encouraged to abort - because she is too poor, too single, too black or w/e - and instead feels supported and provided for as a mother.



Yeah, that's a good goal. My goals are the same: end world poverty, world hunger and enact eugenics on a global scale as to permanently eradicate racism.

Welcome to the Fascist party, comrade.


#57
hi
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i'm confused. are we not allowed to cite scientific studies and their conclusions under any circumstances? i guess we don't have to worry about manmade global warming then.
#58
hi
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shennong posted:

biologists and ecologists are the first people to acknowledge the limits of reductionist thinking in thinking about these systems and to say that the violence of "modern science" is responsible for the ecological crisis denies any kind of nuance in addressing the dialectic between science and capitalism imo


http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/topic/1285/?page=1#post-42119

#59
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AmericanNazbro posted:

Yeah, that's a good goal. My goals are the same: end world poverty, world hunger and enact eugenics on a global scale as to permanently eradicate racism.

Welcome to the Fascist party, comrade.



sorry I'm not good at rhizzone yet is this intended to be funny

#60
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no, literal
#61
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HenryKrinkle posted:

i'm confused. are we not allowed to cite scientific studies and their conclusions under any circumstances? i guess we don't have to worry about manmade global warming then.

we don't. LoL

#62
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wow abortions. interesting.....
#63
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AmericanNazbro posted:

australia is probably the best country that is technically part of the west



no actually it is the Worst

#64
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what if you could only have one... abortions or rape? how would John RR Christy right a book?
#65
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eggplants posted:

AmericanNazbro posted:

Yeah, that's a good goal. My goals are the same: end world poverty, world hunger and enact eugenics on a global scale as to permanently eradicate racism.

Welcome to the Fascist party, comrade.

sorry I'm not good at rhizzone yet is this intended to be funny



Funny? No funny.

#66
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HenryKrinkle posted:

fetuses within the first & second trimester have no sense of pain or awareness and third trimester abortions are done in rare & extraordinary circumstances in which the woman is at risk of serious harm and/or the baby has deformities or illness that will kill it soon after being born anyways.

this isn't hard.



Agreed, so you'd be fine if we did medical experiments on 12 week old fetuses pulled live from their mothers I assume

#67
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or indeed just ate it. It's a non-sentient clump of cells from a woman's body, just like toenails or earwax. Eating that shit is a bit weird but people do it and it can't really be termed "unethical"
#68
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Agreed
#69
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Putting aside the morality of the body being commodified, we see that mothers sell their own milk, and girls sell their hair for hair extensions. I’m really struggling to find any objections from liberal the pro-choice viewpoint to say, someone opening up a fresh fetus restaurant that takes still-living foetuses from the clinic and serving them up on a plate within an hour or two as a delicacy. Assuming all relevant heath and safety standards are followed of course.
#70
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because there aren't any except strong social convention, you giant baby
#71
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foie fetus
#72
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But we’ve seen how quickly capitalism brushes aside centuries held social standards with the wave of a hand.

When these fetus restaurants open, this hobbled-together pro-choice ideology will have no ground to stand on.
#73
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

I just….i just can’t go on….I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Ambulances being dented off the shoulder of President Avenue. I watched ciggies glitter in the dark near the Woolooware gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.


#74
Online
Post rating: +
im pro-life, but only on a personal level. i wont tell other people what to do with tyheir bodies, but if i get pregnant, id feel too guilty to get an abortion. i doubt its easy to tell yourself its just non-sentient clump of cells or whatever, knowing that itll grow into the beuatiful miracle of human life if you dont have it 'aborted' prematurely. so, personally, im keeping it. also im male

Edited by ilmdge ()

#75
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yeah if u got pregnant as a male u should probably keep it because that's pretty impressive and an important scientific discovery
#76
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ITs not a TUMoa
#77
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there's a tension in the liberal idea of human rights, between the supposed universality of the rights and the particularity of real human beings to whom they apply.

fetus fetishists try to resolve this symbolic, notional tension by recourse to the Real of the womb. but something gets in the way, as usual. and, as usual, it's a woman.

but we *have* actually resolved this tension - the subject of universal human rights is a particular person, and not just any person but a woman.

a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body is *the* right, the one from which all other rights are derived, the one that must be upheld as absolute -- precisely because she is man "as such", the embodiment of the universal notion of humanity, in her very particularity as a woman.
#78
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

But we’ve seen how quickly capitalism brushes aside centuries held social standards with the wave of a hand.

When these fetus restaurants open, this hobbled-together pro-choice ideology will have no ground to stand on.



there were pre-modern cultures that killed their newborns all the time. spartans are the obvious examples. and according to roman historians (so this may very well be propaganda), germans would put their newborns in icewater after they were born to see whether they could handle it. in some eastern orthodox cultures at least, until the child was baptized usually a several weeks after it was born, it was considered to not have a soul and could not be buried in church plots.

#79
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indeed, infant mortality was so high for the great amount of human history and resources very limited, that this sanctity of infant life is really ahistorical in a great sense, and once you start having to take out food from mouths of your grown children, having a child is a lot less of a "blessing".
#80
Kurdt
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HenryKrinkle posted:

i'm confused. are we not allowed to cite scientific studies and their conclusions under any circumstances? i guess we don't have to worry about manmade global warming then.

agreed