#1
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So New Zealand just passed legislation legalizing gay marriage which is putting pressure on our leaders in in Straya, neither of whom are budging from their positions of opposition: (“Abbott is a Catholic, Gillard is a Fraud). I believe that some sort of Supreme Court showdown or something is happening in America too.

All this gives an appearance of inevitability to the whole thing and it’s hard to see it not being legal in much of the western world in ten years time. But is it good? Do you support it? Is it an irrelevant distraction from more pressing issues? A sad indictment of the bankruptcy of the left and their commitment to identity politics uber alles? Are we going to start seeing pressure put on to the global South to accept western views on gay marriage just like what’s happened with feminism? Has your drift away from mainstream leftism strengthened your contempt for it so much that you’ve worked out a leftist position to oppose homosexual marriage or even homosexuals in general? Is the ever accelerating breakdown of the family and traditional morality good or bad?

Let’s discuss this important and boring issue.

#2
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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something something "One Ring to Marry Them All" who cares
#3
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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God might hate fags but i fuckin love em
#4
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Nietzsche predicted that after Christianity Christian morals would grow stronger, i see no stronger confirmation of this principle than homosexuals apparently craving legally sanctioned monogamous white picket fence relationships
#5
Mike Nelson here.
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i was reading a catholic argument against gay marriage which sort of goes like this: marriage is prior to the state and is not really regulated by the state so much as acknowledged by it. so people aren't really married because of a license but because of their bond before god or whatever. and that basic belief structures a sort of independence of the family against the state. like personal relationships are not really the business of government.

but when you politicize the definition of marriage, the argument goes, then you start defining what is acceptable not only as marriage (between gay people, polygamy, whatever) but also what happens within marriage. and when you do that you imply an incredible power of the state to determine what is discriminatory or unacceptable. like someone could say oh we need marriage that involves equal sharing of housework, and they could change the definition to say okay if you don't do equal housework then you could get in trouble somehow.

now i think a lot of people would agree with at least part of the logic of that argument, the problem is more that marriage (like property) is not prior to society.
#6
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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not to mention that matrimonial obligation really takes a lot of the passion and spontaneity out of gay childrape
#7
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i don't believei n mariage i reject bourgie values like that hop trains 4 lyfe crust punk anarchy forever!!!
#8
Mike Nelson here.
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another problem with the catholic argument is that all religion is garbage nonsense made up by crazy people.
#9
jiggago
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allow as many gay people to get married as want to and then execute them along with the current straight married couples
#10
[account deactivated]
#11
D.C.
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getfiscal posted:



I don't understand how that's an argument against gay marriage specifically, it seems to suggest the abolition of state sanctioned marriage and its replacement with broadly defined civil unions or even just contractual relationships.

that marriage isn't prior to society isn't problematic for the argument because marriage most definitely predates the state, whose power over marriage is what seems to be at issue.

#12
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I'll weigh in on this one . The thing is, I don't understand how that's an argument against gay marriage specifically, it seems to suggest the abolition of state sanctioned marriage and its replacement with broadly defined civil unions or even just contractual relationships.

that marriage isn't prior to society isn't problematic for the argument because marriage most definitely predates the state, whose power over marriage is what seems to be at issue.
#13
Unapologetic Opponent of Rape
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marriage is a social and economic construct, so it behooves the state to become involved.
#14
Nippon
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as someone who has always supported gay rights it's clear that gay marriage is a complete irrelevance, of functional value only among a tiny percentage of a small percentage of a tiny percentage of the population; that is, people want to get married and are wealthy enough to benefit from it, in long term monogamous relationships, who are openly homosexual. i support it in principle, of course, partially because it is an irrelevance, i see no more reason to oppose it than to oppose redhead marriage.

gay marriage has more or less become the raison d'etre for anyone identifying as even somewhat leftist; yet among people 30 or younger, 81% support gay marriage, which means that it has long surpassed being a leftist or even a Democratic issue among this group and today encompasses libertarians, secular Republicans, the socially-liberal-but-fiscally-conservative types, basically everyone except hardcore right-wing religious fundamentalists. as such, supporting gay marriage can no longer be used to demonstrate someone's leftist bona fides. but it will happen anyway: history will surely regard obama as a progressive because of the action moving gay rights under his administration, despite federal crackdown on marijuana, the response to Occupy, bombing six countries, running secret prisons, shielding powerful lawbreakers, and defunding social security.
#15
Kurdt
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obama is a faggot
#16
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lol even though he only ever posts one line i've enjoyed watching gyrofry's ideological evolution throughout time.
#17
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

lol even though he only ever posts one line i've enjoyed watching gyrofry's ideological evolution throughout time.


it's true

#18
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Squalid posted:

that marriage isn't prior to society isn't problematic for the argument because marriage most definitely predates the state,


No

#19
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pre-modern marriage sucked, medea was right to kill her kids
#20
Online
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I've heard the phrase "Adam and Eve, not adam and Steve" thrown around. But when did Adam and Eve get married? Recall, these were the only two people on Earth. They lived in the Garden of Eden together. They were literally made for each other. Yet I don't remember reading anything about they're wedding in my Holy Book. I think they had premarital sex.
#21
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Even if things 'pre-configure' the modern age, historical materialism and dialectics demonstrate that they are still modern functions. ie the third world and its attendant horrors / struggles/ practices / etc aren't relics of the past, it is modernity
#22
[account deactivated]
#23
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goatstein how do you feel about trans people marrying?
#24
[account deactivated]
#25
Nippon
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ggw posted:

goatstein how do you feel about trans people marrying?



#26
Online
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asdf

Edited by ilmdge ()

#27
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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wasted posted:

pre-modern marriage sucked, medea was right to kill her kids



Diary of an Angry Black Lesbian

#28
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

ilmdge posted:

I've heard the phrase "Adam and Eve, not adam and Steve" thrown around. But when did Adam and Eve get married? Recall, these were the only two people on Earth. They lived in the Garden of Eden together. They were literally made for each other. Yet I don't remember reading anything about they're wedding in my Holy Book. I think they had premarital sex.



oi mate, eets Adam and Sheila not Adam and Biebah

#29
Poronto
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how do you feel about trains marrying
#30
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JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. TRAINS
#31
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Obama wants to cut SS by $400 billion more than the republicans. But let's not talk about American congressional politics because the more important question is how to make the South rise again.
#32
Online
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asdf

Edited by ilmdge ()

#33
Kurdt
Post rating: +
1. Leck mich am Arsch.
Literal translation: Lick my ass.
Meaning: Screw you! Fuck off! Kiss my ass!

2. Das geht mir am Arsch vorbei.
Literal translation: It passes my ass.
Meaning: I don't give a shit.

3. Das liegt am Arsch der Welt.
Literal translation: It is located at the ass of the world.
Meaning: That's in the arse end of nowhere.

4. Ich reiße mir den Arsch auf.
Literal translation: I rip my ass apart.
Meaning: I work my butt off.

5. Es ist alles im Arsch.
Literal translation: It's all in the ass.
Meaning: It's all fucked up.

6. Der kriecht ihr in den Arsch.
Literal translation: He is crawling into her ass.
Meaning: He's kissing her ass.

7. Du hast ja wohl den Arsch offen?
Literal translation: Is your ass open?
Meaning: Are you insane? What the fuck is wrong with you?

8. Ich trete Dir gleich in den Arsch.
Literal translation: I am going to kick into your ass.
Meaning: I am going to kick your ass.

9. Ich habe Dir gerade den Arsch gerettet.
Literal translation: I just saved your ass.
Meaning: I just saved your ass.

10. Ich bin voll im Arsch.
Literal translation: I am fully in the ass.
Meaning: I am really screwed. I am dead tired.

11. Da geht mir der Arsch auf Grundeis.
Literal translation: My ass is going onto the bottom of the ice.
Meaning: I am scared shitless. I am shitting bricks. I am shit-scared.

12. Ich beiß mir in den Arsch.
Literal translation: I am biting myself into the ass.
Meaning: I could kick myself.

13. Der kriegt den Arsch nicht voll.
Literal translation: He can't get his ass full.
Meaning: He just can't get enough.

14. Da habe ich wohl die Arschkarte gezogen.
Literal translation: I think I drew the ass card.
Meaning: I think I drew the short straw. I think I got screwed.

15. Arschgeweih
Literal translation: ass horns
Meaning: tramp stamp

16. Arschbombe
Literal translation: ass bomb
Meaning: bomb (to jump in the water with your rear first)

17. Arschgeige
Literal translation: ass violin
Meaning: dipstick

18. arschklar
Literal translation: ass clear
Meaning: bloddy obvious

19. Arschloch
Literal translation: ass hole
Meaning: asshole
#34
Online
Post rating: +
ok heres a joke im gonna coem clean about, it's too hammy so im not actually telling this joke, just letting you know i came up with it. something about adam saying eve thinks she's "god's gift to man"
#35
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The answer is that the true leftist should support the mainstreaming of contemporary identity politics and assisting with the dissolution of all barriers to their adoption, on the basis that the sooner these issues arent issues any more, the sooner non-class divisions in society lose their material basis and as such will cease to act as distractions from The Revolution

of course in reality identity politics is rooted in people being unwilling to participate in already-existing society, less out of fear of persecution but more out of childish oppositional-defiance, so it's more likely to result in libertarianism and social collapse.

both outcomes are good reasons to support gay marriage so pick one
#36
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Acceleration ism, we already tried that and it didn't work.
#37
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Thats not accelerationism
#38
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It is, it's an insidious form of it, you're saying we should waste time with identity politics (which are a form of nationalism) rather than directly engaging in class struggle.
#39
Poronto
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"gay marriage is historically inevitable". what was the last historically inevitable thing we heard about. yeah didn't turn out so well did it
#40
Kurdt
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accelerate my balls