#81
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: +

aerdil posted:
actually its pretty interesting, almost always the people decrying films like antichrist to be misogynist are male critics. some female feminists otoh seem to enjoy it: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2009/10/23/why_the_lars_von_trier_movie_antichrist_is_feminist.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/jul/16/antichrist-lars-von-trier-feminism

hes just blatantly un-PC w/ his jokes during interviews. i.e. when he got kicked out of cannes



SLATE.COM GUARDIAN.CO.UK, BASTIONS OF FEMINIST DEFENSE OF LARS VON NAZI

#82
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: +
i have about as much respect for your artistic opinions and ideas as i do hustler magazine paco
#83
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same, but replace hustler magazine with the new yorker
#84
Post rating: ~
the mutual is feeling
#85
tardy on these heaters
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aerdil posted:
same, but replace hustler magazine with the new yorker



same.

#86
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lol lars von nazi
#87
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Joanna Bourke is a socialist feminist at birkbeck btw and probably has the most glowing review of antichrist out of all of those
#88
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antichrist was a great film
#89
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agreedo, practically all the vehement hate ive seen for it is either from liberals or people who didnt actually see all of the movie
#90
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tpaine posted:
didnt immpper recommend a rape victim from wddp watch dogville lol


thats our impster!

#91
penitent
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Groulxsmith posted:
the schlockiest and most exploitive movies, things like human centipede and hostel, at least at some point were offered up some kind of bold social critiques



i dont think we should necessarily object to anything in the artistic field (ideologically, of course, aesthetic objections are always valid)...... rather, if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading

#92
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: +
i don't tend to get angry at bad movies or most things for that matter. then again i'm one of those weird people that like gets in a long line and thinks 'hooray this will teach me patience'
#93
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

Groulxsmith posted:
the schlockiest and most exploitive movies, things like human centipede and hostel, at least at some point were offered up some kind of bold social critiques

i dont think we should necessarily object to anything in the artistic field (ideologically, of course, aesthetic objections are always valid)...... rather, if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading



*wallows in garbage*

#94
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:
i don't tend to get angry at bad movies or most things for that matter. then again i'm one of those weird people that like gets in a long line and thinks 'hooray this will teach me patience'



thats me but also i like pelting stones at easy targets

#95
[account deactivated]
#96
drivel of drunken hags
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:
if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading


that's generally what we do already so long as the thing is regarded as a canonical, Serious work

#97
[account deactivated]
#98
[account deactivated]
#99
tardy on these heaters
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This passion for wanting to meet the latest poet, shake hands with the latest novelist, get hold of the latest painter, devour ... what is it? What is it they want from a man that they didn't get from his work? What do they expect? What is there left of him when he's done his work? What's any artist, but the dregs of his work? the human shambles that follows it around. What's left of the man when the work's done but a shambles of apology.
#100
Post rating: ~
mandelay was really good too, and yes, it was about a slave plantation. wow!
#101
tardy on these heaters
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the only von trier movie ive seen was melancholia which was pretty lame, stupid in a boring unremarkable kind of way, nice visuals i guess but he just obviously had nothing to say
#102
penitent
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

deadken posted:

Groulxsmith posted:
the schlockiest and most exploitive movies, things like human centipede and hostel, at least at some point were offered up some kind of bold social critiques

i dont think we should necessarily object to anything in the artistic field (ideologically, of course, aesthetic objections are always valid)...... rather, if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading

*wallows in garbage*



im not saying we should tolerate bad art, just that we shouldn't discount good art based on a narrow negative view of ideology. unless youre making a dumb personal attack in which case im p clean living actually

#103
penitent
Post rating: ~

Groulxsmith posted:

deadken posted:
if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading

that's generally what we do already so long as the thing is regarded as a canonical, Serious work



true but only after a couple of decades have passed. i know feminists who still hate the fuck out of chaucer

#104
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

babyfinland posted:

deadken posted:

Groulxsmith posted:
the schlockiest and most exploitive movies, things like human centipede and hostel, at least at some point were offered up some kind of bold social critiques

i dont think we should necessarily object to anything in the artistic field (ideologically, of course, aesthetic objections are always valid)...... rather, if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading

*wallows in garbage*

im not saying we should tolerate bad art, just that we shouldn't discount good art based on a narrow negative view of ideology. unless youre making a dumb personal attack in which case im p clean living actually



WELL FINE

#105
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
the only von trier movie ive seen was melancholia which was pretty lame, stupid in a boring unremarkable kind of way, nice visuals i guess but he just obviously had nothing to say

i guess you dont care but dogville/antichrist/mandelay and etc. are much better than melancholia imho

#106
Post rating: ~
also i'm not sure what you mean by having nothing to say. you just don't like what he's saying, which is different and fair enough, but it's not like he isn't saying anything
#107
lame
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

Groulxsmith posted:
the schlockiest and most exploitive movies, things like human centipede and hostel, at least at some point were offered up some kind of bold social critiques

i dont think we should necessarily object to anything in the artistic field (ideologically, of course, aesthetic objections are always valid)...... rather, if we are confronted by some particularly racist chauvinist or misogynist text we should prise apart its contradictions and formulate a subversive reading



I've been forcing myself to sit through things that make me uncomfortable because there's a lot of value in being able to tear it down on its contradictions like you say. I can't blame a person of colour or a woman who wouldn't want to sit through something extremely misogynistic or racist (even if it's ridiculous to the point of parody or trying to make some larger point) cause sometimes that shit is hella trying

#108
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

Impper posted:
also i'm not sure what you mean by having nothing to say. you just don't like what he's saying, which is different and fair enough, but it's not like he isn't saying anything



i meant what i said

#109
penitent
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d0gv1ll3 0wn5
#110
tardy on these heaters
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this mufucka noobsplaining me
#111
lame
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deadken posted:
im not saying we should tolerate bad art, just that we shouldn't discount good art based on a narrow negative view of ideology. unless youre making a dumb personal attack in which case im p clean living actually



we should judge art more on whether it serves the people or not imo, what's form without function

#112
penitent
Post rating: ~

futurewidow posted:
I've been forcing myself to sit through things that make me uncomfortable because there's a lot of value in being able to tear it down on its contradictions like you say. I can't blame a person of colour or a woman who wouldn't want to sit through something extremely misogynistic or racist (even if it's ridiculous to the point of parody or trying to make some larger point) cause sometimes that shit is hella trying



oh yeah of course, im not saying classrooms of black kids should be sat down in front of birth of a nation and told to construct subversive readings of it or anything, if you dont like something then you dont like it + that goes especially if its overtly attacking an oppressed group you belong to, but the work itself shouldnt be discounted

#113
penitent
Post rating: ~

futurewidow posted:

deadken posted:
im not saying we should tolerate bad art, just that we shouldn't discount good art based on a narrow negative view of ideology. unless youre making a dumb personal attack in which case im p clean living actually

we should judge art more on whether it serves the people or not imo, what's form without function



uh yeah but utility should be considered in terms of critical potential rather than just overt attributes

#114
Kurdt
Post rating: ~

Lessons posted:
did anyone else see Todd Solondz's cinematic ode to racism + sexism, Storytelling?

yes it owned

#115
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

futurewidow posted:
I've been forcing myself to sit through things that make me uncomfortable because there's a lot of value in being able to tear it down on its contradictions like you say. I can't blame a person of colour or a woman who wouldn't want to sit through something extremely misogynistic or racist (even if it's ridiculous to the point of parody or trying to make some larger point) cause sometimes that shit is hella trying

oh yeah of course, im not saying classrooms of black kids should be sat down in front of birth of a nation and told to construct subversive readings of it or anything, if you dont like something then you dont like it + that goes especially if its overtly attacking an oppressed group you belong to, but the work itself shouldnt be discounted



this is fine and all but why are you raising this in defense of von trier's objectively bad art

#116
lame
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

futurewidow posted:

deadken posted:
im not saying we should tolerate bad art, just that we shouldn't discount good art based on a narrow negative view of ideology. unless youre making a dumb personal attack in which case im p clean living actually

we should judge art more on whether it serves the people or not imo, what's form without function

uh yeah but utility should be considered in terms of critical potential rather than just overt attributes



mmhmm

#117
penitent
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i havent seen melancholia but dogville + antichrist both owned
#118
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lol von triers "objectively bad art"
#119
penitent
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i just realised that i never say that something 'owns' in real life and if someone said that to me i'd look at them weird. false unity of the self status: smashed
#120
Kurdt
Post rating: +
wddp reviews john christy's latest story: