GoldenLionTamarin posted:

i didnt create that blog and it exists to make fun of people misusing privilege theory for things like non-otherkin privilege you doofus

i dont get why this is such a controversial thing, youre basically on the level of this article, saying the idea that someone may benefit from privilege in a certain area while being oppressed in other areas is bullshit because even though stephen hawking has white and male privilege hes in a wheelchair http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/tumblr-privilege-check.php

you and goat are misusing privilege theory just as much as them though. since its inception, it's always been a method of describing discrimination that minority communities face that is invisible to the white/male/cisgendered community, not as a list of biological (in goatstein's case) or developmental (in your case) characteristics. you're also misusing the concept of intersectionality in the same way these tumblr idiots do, specifically as a hand-wavy dismissive excuse to avoid actually analyzing societal conflict. basically goat is an asshole, and probably closet trans considering that he can't stop harping on it, and you've stared too long into the abyss.

GoldenLionTamarin posted:

in a patriarchal society that favors men over women, being treated as male by parents, teachers, employers, etc. for the first 18 or so years of a person's life can give them slight advantages over people perceived as female in their formative years, and these advantages may persist even if the person treated as male turns out to be transgender and has to face the brutal oppression that stems from that. is there really an argument against this

This is why I'm raising my future (adopted, probably) child post-gendered, especially if xe's a boy

Lessons posted:

GoldenLionTamarin posted:

in a patriarchal society that favors men over women, being treated as male by parents, teachers, employers, etc. for the first 18 or so years of a person's life can give them slight advantages over people perceived as female in their formative years, and these advantages may persist even if the person treated as male turns out to be transgender and has to face the brutal oppression that stems from that. is there really an argument against this


of course not. but is there any empirical evidence of a system of privilege, the way there is with white privilege, male privilege, or cisgender privilege? i haven't seen. in fact i don't think it's there, probably because in a whole it's a wash considering gender dysphoria can set in anywhere between infancy and early adulthood and on average that tends to counteract, usually overwhelm, any benefits that being assigned male at birth might confer.

this is totally off the top of my head, and i'm not actually disagreeing with you, but i believe i read that there's a disproportionate amount of trans-women in high level IT positions. which fits with the fact that most transwomen were taught as if they were boys in their formative years.

elemennop posted:

Lessons posted:

GoldenLionTamarin posted:

in a patriarchal society that favors men over women, being treated as male by parents, teachers, employers, etc. for the first 18 or so years of a person's life can give them slight advantages over people perceived as female in their formative years, and these advantages may persist even if the person treated as male turns out to be transgender and has to face the brutal oppression that stems from that. is there really an argument against this


of course not. but is there any empirical evidence of a system of privilege, the way there is with white privilege, male privilege, or cisgender privilege? i haven't seen. in fact i don't think it's there, probably because in a whole it's a wash considering gender dysphoria can set in anywhere between infancy and early adulthood and on average that tends to counteract, usually overwhelm, any benefits that being assigned male at birth might confer.

this is totally off the top of my head, and i'm not actually disagreeing with you, but i believe i read that there's a disproportionate amount of trans-women in high level IT positions. which fits with the fact that most transwomen were taught as if they were boys in their formative years.

i wouldn't wish IT work on anyone

GoldenLionTamarin posted:

im not sure what you mean really and im not that invested in this, just trying to make my original point clear. i'm not denying that transwomen face considerably more oppression than cis women or pulling some radfem bullshit like that, my original point was that the blogger someone linked to a few pages ago said she had never benefited from male privilege specifically using being abused as a child as evidence and i said that even though she faces a ton of oppression in a bunch of areas, that in itself doesnt automatically negate the fact that she may have benefited in some way from male privilege at some point in her life

privilege has traditionally been understood as a systematic advantage conferred to certain groups in society. it's entirely possible for someone to be assigned as male at birth, transition to female later, and either get net advantages, net disadvantages, or a total wash out of the experience being percieved as male prior to transition. it was never intended as a mechanistic hierarchy. a genuinely intersectional analysis takes the context into account.