Crow posted:lol the comments
https://id.theguardian.com/profile/seanthorp/public
get him an account
That Feel When living in age of darkest reaction
Ok so at first I was keeping tabs on the comments/corrections i had about the lead-up to the overthrow/coup/whatever you want to call it, but i think it's useful to just make some general comments that may help steer the debate in the future and come up with some actionable conclusions.
Firstly, you can't properly take accounting of the internal situation and Maidan seizure without chronicling NATO action & NGO investment in the whole region. Alot of this nascent ethnic nationalism (which warps Soviet nostalgia, as you can clearly see) was jointly financed by Western academic institutions, USAID/intelligence budget, and other NGO auxiliaries along with client governments in the region, in the process of privatization and jockeying for political power. This was the case not just since the collapse, but also during the Cold War, openly with groups such as the Ukrainian Congress Committee of America or more obliquely with groups such as the Orthodox-fascist Pamyat ("Memory") via Russian Orthodox Church in Exile.
The apparatus that is in control of Russia is studded by foreign interests, especially Americans but also British, German, and other EU/NATO players, Putin's administration refers to these actors as 'partners' in regards to the crisis developing in Ukraine (and recognizes the new Ukrainian government to boot, at the same time as its new officials act out crude ethnic incitement). They are indeed partners, and always have been, Yeltsin had billions of dollars in outside funding prop up his counterrevolution, and eventually made a deal with other oligarch groups to preserve his loot and choosing an amenable successor, obviously with input from American partners.
Putin has always strove for an excellent relationship with these partners, ie. the global 'War On Terror' outreach, and even when Russian interests did not exactly line up with the G7 (Libya is an excellent example). As you can see by the limited approaches to Syria and Ukraine, the contradiction between the Russian ruling cliques and their NATO partners, and questions of territorial and trade integrity ultimately forces a very fine, defensive line. If I had to speculate, I'd say that there was a plan already in place to retake Crimea, but there was no plan for a popular eastern Ukraine uprising. And due to the confused Russian bureaucracy and the contradictory interests of the Russian capitalist class, there probably will not be anything more than a haphazard plan that's conservative in execution.
Anyway, sorry to ramble, but I just wanted to make the point: this stuff is staged on a background of conflict that extends across the entire world. I think you have a crucial point about Russia not actually being able to exert imperial control on a grand scale anywhere near the one its 'partner'/master is, and will throw its own nationals and allies to a horrifically brutal counterinsurgency campaign just to retain the meager defensive posture it can afford. A lot of these reactionary movements are tied concretely at the most elemental level to a global imperial apparatus (whether it's ISIS, or Tsarist loons), and as Americans, this is where we enter the global situation, on the level of the imperial prime mover who is as determinate (if not more) of the material situation people abroad find themselves in as local power constellations. This crucial fact seems to be completely invisible when we talk about what mistakes a corrupt leader from a faraway country made
the youtube uploader adds blank space at the ends of the videos sometimes, what you see was the full presentation, I think. I haven't watched it all the way to the end myself but that's happened before. unless it cuts off in the middle of a sentence or something it's probably the whole thing.
stegosaurus posted:agreed. not much to say. I'm not sure if you're implying in your last paragraph that my discussion of 'those corrupt and bumbling eastern european elites' is crude and maybe even offensive when I neglect to mention the role of foreigners in putting them in power. that's sort of the way I'm looking at it myself after the context you've provided.
the youtube uploader adds blank space at the ends of the videos sometimes, what you see was the full presentation, I think. I haven't watched it all the way to the end myself but that's happened before. unless it cuts off in the middle of a sentence or something it's probably the whole thing.
well, i mean lets put it this way: what are you doing when you are giving this talk? who are you educating? what are the end goals of educating communists in America? the end goal of educating communists in America is to challenge the capitalist state and overthrow it. you are raising the political consciousness and education of a cadre that is willing to put in the time, energy and commitment (and sacrifice) to organize a people's revolution.
so since the end goal is revolution in America, what is the point of talking about localized conflicts on the other side of the world? well, the point is 1) an analysis of modern capitalism (in the era of world imperialist monopoly), and 2) a nascent revolutionary strategy to fight it. If you're an American, and you're talking about Ukraine, or Russia, or whatever, you have to always keep an eye on the class enemy that is at home, or you fall short of both of these crucial points.
We don't need to know that there is "some truth" to the highly disciplined propaganda campaign that is waged by our class enemy. We are organizing a revolution in America, we shouldn't need to apologetically defend our analysis to a mainstream, racialized view of other peoples, and in the process almost totally erasing our *real* enemy and displacing our struggle to an oblique 'abroad'. Analysis should be anchored accordingly.
Because, let's be honest, we are not getting a proper picture of the situation in Ukraine. Even reading Russian/Ukrainian sources. And we can't follow it to the degree of detail that we would if we were Ukrainian. Nor should we, that is not our struggle. Our struggle is to overthrow the American imperial system that has such a monstrous chilling effect on the struggles going on in many parts of the globe. Anchored appropriately, we do not have to worry quite as much about making chauvinistic decisions to 'uphold' this or that poorly-understood leader, or color revolution, or turn of events that would make a fool of us in time.
Because right now we don't have a fully convincing case to win over people for a mass movement. Ignoring the concrete, global strength of our enemy is not going to do us any favors. Show people that what they hear on the news are lies, and then tell them *WHY*, and what they can start doing about it, then you have something. As that old poet says, Who are our enemies, who are our friends? To find out, we need to develop an analysis on the general economic status of classes in the USA and their respective attitudes towards overthrowing imperialism. That's a necessarily global analysis. In this new era, it must be an analysis properly targeting the global American imperial class. Then we can develop strategies to combat them and unite with our friends against our enemies.
You know who said that??? Oh just a little guy called.... Mao.
http://www.leejones.tk/blog/wordpress/?p=1005
Lessons posted:Liked your talk Stego. Also saw this a couple days ago, really good overview of the situation which underlines how this is fundamentally a US/EU problem.
http://www.leejones.tk/blog/wordpress/?p=1005
> Reflecting the way they had blundered into the crisis without a sufficient commitment as to its consequences, even when their allies – which included neo-fascist forces – seized power, the West was unwilling to put its money where its mouth was, offering nothing susbtantial to meet the government’s desperate economic needs. This deepened Ukraine’s severe socio-economic crisis.
> The new, putchist Ukrainian regime was forced into adopting austerity programmes and also elected to curtail the rights of Eastern Ukrainians, precipitating a crisis in the East.
Stopped reading there lmao. I hope you posted this as a joke
lol
Lessons posted:There's nothing objectionable at all in those first two quotes, the second one sounds like it's going out of its way to sound disinterested but really it links to a bunch of stuff like this http://ukraine-human-rights.org/odessa-ukraine-right-sector-and-maidan-activists-murder-at-least-43-persons/
The entire point was to impose austerity, this was not a failure or a lack of commitment on the part of the USA. The other quote is not "disinterested" but actively makes a false equivalency between fascist murderers and trade unionists and leftists defending their lives, referring to the latter as backed by russia and "possibly" backed by Moscow even though there is no evidence for either. This is fox news level stuff, Obama is "possibly" the anti-christ.
HenryKrinkle posted:this calls for a speech from putin:
so lets take a little retrospective
Interested in increasing its influence in the region, France is reportedly considering sending rebel factions in northern Syria artillery as well as anti-aircraft guns. They have already confirmed plans to provide funds to several rebel blocs, though not the Free Syrian Army (FSA).
The timing for the anti-aircraft weaponry report couldn’t be worse. Earlier today, the Free Syrian Army announced that they now consider civilian aircrafts to be “legitimate military targets” and say they will attack any airplanes flying over Syria after this weekend.
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/09/06/syria-rebels-declare-civilian-aircraft-legitimate-targets/
Syria rebels "fire warning shots" at airliner at Aleppo airport
Fri, Dec 21 09:49 AM EST
BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syrian rebels fired warning shots at an airliner preparing to take off from Aleppo airport in the first direct attack on a civilian flight since the uprising in Syria began 21 months ago, a rebel commander said on Friday.
The commander, who gave his name only as Khaldoun, told Reuters by Skype that snipers from his brigade had hit the wheels of Syrian Airways flight RB201 on Thursday.
"Those were warning shots," he said, adding that the plane had been unable to take off. "We wanted to send a message to the regime that all their planes - military and civilian - are within our reach."
There were no immediate reports of the incident on Syrian state media.
Rebels accuse the government of using civilian aircraft to transport weapons and Iranian fighters they say are helping President Bashar al-Assad's forces. Insurgents have cut off many of the road links to Aleppo, Syria's biggest city.
Fighting around Damascus has made the road to the capital's international airport unsafe for traffic. Foreign airlines have stopped flying there. According to flight schedules, the Cairo-bound RB201 usually flies from Damascus rather than Aleppo.
"What happened with Damascus airport will happen to Aleppo, even if the price is higher," Khaldoun said in reference to battles convulsing Aleppo since July.
Another rebel urged civilians not to use Aleppo airport or Syrian Air flights "as they will be targets from now on".
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSLNE8BK02F20121221?irpc=932
Of course, apparently NATO-backed fascists in Syria are ready to shoot down a civilian airline, but not NATO-backed fascists in Ukraine, because, uh Europe. Civilization
KUALA LUMPUR, July 18 — Malaysia Airlines (MAS) said tonight that it was told to fly low over Ukrainian airspace by ground controllers, putting it at 33,000 feet, just skimming 1,000 feet above restricted altitude.
In a statement here, MAS explained that MH17 had initially filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet above Ukrainian territory, which it described as close to the “optimum altitude”.
“However, an aircraft’s altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground.
“Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet,” the national carrier said.
The decision by MH17’s pilots to skim closely to the prohibited air zone — which is 32,000 feet, according to Europe’s aviation authority Eurocontrol — has prompted numerous questions whether this may have contributed to what is believed to be a case of mistaken identity.
Malaysia Airlines diverts flight from Ukraine - to Syria
http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysia-airlines-diverts-flight-from-ukraine--to-syria-20140721-zvgya.html
Well, let's hope the Syrian flight control don't divert the flight altitude of the next civilian planes for random reason!
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/mh17-who-did-it-what-next.aspx?PageID=238&NID=69378&NewsCatID=418
The really damning evidence, however, is on the social media sites [Crownote: Social media, a neutral realm of objective struggle]. First there is a post on a top rebel commander’s site, just at the time MH17 went down, claiming to have downed a Ukrainian transport plane. Within hours that post was deleted. Then the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) posted intercepted telephone conversations between rebel commanders on YouTube.
“Demon,” commanding the rebel troops who are the first to the crash site, reports: “Cossacks from the Chernunkhino checkpoint shot down the plane....They found the first body. It’s a civilian.” “Were there many people?” asks his superior, nicknamed “Greek”. “A fuckload,” replies Demon. “The debris rained right into the yards.”
“Any weapons there?” asks Greek. “None at all. Civilian things. Medical stuff, towels, toilet paper,” says Demon. “Any documents?” asks Greek. And Demon, finally realizing what must have happened, replies: “Yes. From an Indonesian student. From Thompson University.” And he curses again.
It’s probably not Thompson University, which is an entirely online institution in the United States. It’s almost certainly Thompson Rivers University, in Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada, which has a student exchange agreement with the International Islamic Education Council (IIEC) in Indonesia.
And there’s no way, without access to the crash site and with only a few hours to do the job, that the Ukrainian intelligence service could have come up with that kind of detail to put into a fake recording. It’s genuine. The rebels did it.
http://inside.tru.ca/2014/07/17/concern-and-sympathy-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17/
24,000 students currently attend Thompson Rivers University. Since almost 20 per cent of them come to us from more than 85 countries around the globe, major international events often carry profound personal impact for TRU… simply because they may touch one of our own.
We have had inquiries regarding one such recent event: the recent crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight. We can now confirm that none of our students were aboard the plane as we have been in contact with the Indonesian Consulate.
Why is the West idly watching the world burn?
Will the tragic downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 finally be enough to force the Western powers to grapple with the conflict in Ukraine?
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/21/why_is_the_west_idly_watching_the_world_burn.html
RescueCreditor posted:It's behind a paywall, and not worth reading, but the title and byline of this editorial was enough for me to chortle:
just as an aside you can get around the star's paythinger really easily by using the Inspect Element functionality of your browser and deleting frames that have to do with overlay and syncronex something something, if you find yourself wanting to Read More Crap for whatever reason
chickeon posted:RescueCreditor posted:It's behind a paywall, and not worth reading, but the title and byline of this editorial was enough for me to chortle:
just as an aside you can get around the star's paythinger really easily by using the Inspect Element functionality of your browser and deleting frames that have to do with overlay and syncronex something something, if you find yourself wanting to Read More Crap for whatever reason
this is what i do too fwiw. you can probably google the exact code to do this for the star if you care.
