save an aristocracy.
A monarchy or a republic, based upon democracy,
are equally absurd and feeble.
The immense nausea of advertisements.
There are but three beings worthy of respect: the
priest, the warrior and the poet. To know, to kill
and to create.
The rest of mankind may be taxed and drudged,
they are born for the stable, that is to say, to practise
what they call professions.
babyhueypnewton posted:
People of color in the US have a revolutionary potential because of the unique history of slavery and racism culminating in the prison-industrial complex, the role hispanic laborers play as 3rd world labor within the US, the history of black marxism and the CPUSA (and IWW) and the only political organizations that weren't extremely racist, and a bunch of other things like our culture and our national mythology about the civil rights movement.
I would be surprised if there was anything comparable in Sweden. Not to say immigrant issues aren't important, but I don't see how these are revolutionary issues or broad leftist issues beyond the desperation of the left that thinks all issues combined in some kind of rainbow coalition is the revolution.
I think you have an unrealistic view of what Sweden and other well off EU nations are like. There is in fact a lot of racism, discrimination, whatever word you'd like to use. I don't see why playing up the revolutionary struggle of blacks in the USA however great it may be as a means of delegitimizing the struggles of immigrants to Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc... makes any sense.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:babyhueypnewton posted:
People of color in the US have a revolutionary potential because of the unique history of slavery and racism culminating in the prison-industrial complex, the role hispanic laborers play as 3rd world labor within the US, the history of black marxism and the CPUSA (and IWW) and the only political organizations that weren't extremely racist, and a bunch of other things like our culture and our national mythology about the civil rights movement.
I would be surprised if there was anything comparable in Sweden. Not to say immigrant issues aren't important, but I don't see how these are revolutionary issues or broad leftist issues beyond the desperation of the left that thinks all issues combined in some kind of rainbow coalition is the revolution.I think you have an unrealistic view of what Sweden and other well off EU nations are like. There is in fact a lot of racism, discrimination, whatever word you'd like to use. I don't see why playing up the revolutionary struggle of blacks in the USA however great it may be as a means of delegitimizing the struggles of immigrants to Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc... makes any sense.
Obviously. The question is not how awesome it is to be a minority in Sweden. The question is are minorities in Sweden a large enough and unified enough group (culturally, economically, politically, etc) to have a revolutionary potential beyond their own immediate issues? Do minorities play a specific role in the economy of Sweden, the way prison labor by African-Americans and illegal labor by Hispanics serve as third world labor within the first world and therefore serve as a unique opportunity for revolutionary consciousness within the imperialist domain?
It sounds good to talk about minority issues, but we're not dealing with educating people on this forum. I don't think anyone here is racist or thinks liberal Europe is a wonderful place. We need a discussion of tactics and strategy, an economic analysis and an analysis of class forces and the contradictions of the Scandinavian welfare state, and to me this just seems like an analysis of the American conditions blindly applied to a different context.
noavbazzer posted:
what happened to your posts that were more than a sentence impper i usually liked them
idk, my heads not really in the postin game right now for a lot of reasons.
babyhueypnewton posted:
Obviously. The question is not how awesome it is to be a minority in Sweden. The question is are minorities in Sweden a large enough and unified enough group (culturally, economically, politically, etc) to have a revolutionary potential beyond their own immediate issues? Do minorities play a specific role in the economy of Sweden, the way prison labor by African-Americans and illegal labor by Hispanics serve as third world labor within the first world and therefore serve as a unique opportunity for revolutionary consciousness within the imperialist domain?
It sounds good to talk about minority issues, but we're not dealing with educating people on this forum. I don't think anyone here is racist or thinks liberal Europe is a wonderful place. We need a discussion of tactics and strategy, an economic analysis and an analysis of class forces and the contradictions of the Scandinavian welfare state, and to me this just seems like an analysis of the American conditions blindly applied to a different context.
Yes immigrants in Scandinavia can be a revolutionary force, and besides whether or not they fit into your idea of what the revolution would be like I don't think is really relevant because imo it's obvious that their struggle is part of the greater proletarian one and they have a right to struggle. What is Tinkzorg supposted to do, go to some place in say southeast Asia and pay the countries women to fuck him in a hostel toilet?
Also we should all be 'dealing with' educating eachother at all times - it is our sacred duty.
suggestions for stuff to include are welcome here, my goal is basically to get these people exposed to the non-whitewashed part of anti-racist struggles, historical and contemporary. i told them straight up that the actual truth behind those rosy ideas of everyone singing kumbayah and fighting some uncomplicated racist boogeyman togheter were dumb and that they made as much sense as white liberals talking about ghandi. i then told them some of the things that ghandi actually said and thought to hammer home their ignorance and they were shocked.
essentially, best case scenario is me composing a course thats useful in getting white liberals not to "help" fight racist structures but rather help others help themselves.
Impper posted:
the outrage over that was obnoxious as hell haha
how dare women get angry at the exploitation of 3rd world women, how dare they
Huey can you track her down and give her an account so we can put this to bed.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
ofc search is retarded so I can't find the thread but didn't he just say like 'I'm nto gonna talk about MY experience w/ a hooker because y'all wouldn't like it' or something to that effect?
yeah and I was right. I knew it would get the lf treatment of being distorted and eventually twisted into a new, unrelated but offensive version, passively sniped at and brought up in every thread, and then demonized for not being ideologically pure.
Hopefully this will put it to rest, but yes individuals in the real world often act as part of oppressive systems, actively act as oppressive agents because of societal pressure, or don't act as perfect ideological representatives because that leads to being stuck on the internet with sadbrains. Jumping on that, instead of discussing the wider social implications which is what I hoped would happen, is WDDP nerds jumping on each other because there's no one else to. The internet is real life and I really don't care what you people think of me, but if we can't have interesting discussion and instead this becomes a forum for personal drama, video games chat, and the refuse of WDDP, then I really don't see a point in posting.
EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
that is a load of bullshit - why not just leave it out? like i said you did this on purpose and it's weird
Actually I did, it was specifically brought out and then repeatedly derailed the thread until I addressed it. And I didn't bring it up because I feel guilty or something, but because I wanted the thread to be a discussion and not a sharing of personal stories. I guess I anticipated the response wrong, because like I said none of you know me, I have an actual social life as I hope you guys do as well, why would anyone want to come here except for discussion, analysis, and a little humor?
babyhueypnewton posted:
yeah and I was right. I knew it would get the lf treatment of being distorted and eventually twisted into a new, unrelated but offensive version, passively sniped at and brought up in every thread, and then demonized for not being ideologically pure.
Hopefully this will put it to rest, but yes individuals in the real world often act as part of oppressive systems, actively act as oppressive agents because of societal pressure, or don't act as perfect ideological representatives because that leads to being stuck on the internet with sadbrains. Jumping on that, instead of discussing the wider social implications which is what I hoped would happen, is WDDP nerds jumping on each other because there's no one else to. The internet is real life and I really don't care what you people think of me, but if we can't have interesting discussion and instead this becomes a forum for personal drama, video games chat, and the refuse of WDDP, then I really don't see a point in posting.
there's valid criticism and there's WDDP style criticism. you fucked up, you brought it up, you're not sorry in the least bit and now you're whining that people called you on your shit while threatening to go post elsewhere.
everybody knows the structures and systems at play, you didn't add anything new or insightful about the plight of prostitutes in the Philippines you just told us they're prettier than expected. you're using a system of oppression as an excuse not to engage criticism and it's dumb as shit.
littlegreenpills posted:
he didn't bring it up on purpose iirc, he let it slip by accident due to being impressed or moved or shocked or something by the conditions in the clinic where he went to get his dick scabs looked at
in his original post he just commented on the attractiveness of the women working as prostitutes at the end of an otherwise interesting travelogue
gyrofry posted:
i am without sin and therefore entirely justified in heaving this here stone
men let this shit fly because they see themselves in guys like bhpn and they don't see the harm. then they lay on the guilt for women who have the nerve to call men on this shit
gyrofry posted:
castigating individuals for their consumer choices is creeping methodological individualism
hmm yes, buying women is like buying an ipod, plz go on
babyhueypnewton posted:
I have an actual social life as I hope you guys do as well, why would anyone want to come here except for discussion, analysis, and a little humor?
i dunno about your social circle but it sure as hell wouldn't fly in mine, I'm glad your friends are accepting though and hopefully they'll help you work through your issues with women so that you can become a real revolutionary some day
futurewidow posted:gyrofry posted:
castigating individuals for their consumer choices is creeping methodological individualismhmm yes, buying women is like buying an ipod, plz go on
At least he had the bravery to exploit the third world proletariat face to face though. That’s possibly more commendable than the western masses who will never gaze upon the dead eyes and pricked fingers of the Foxconn workers who facilitate Katy Perry’s consumerist anthems into their ears.
futurewidow posted:
there's valid criticism and there's WDDP style criticism. you fucked up, you brought it up, you're not sorry in the least bit and now you're whining that people called you on your shit while threatening to go post elsewhere.
everybody knows the structures and systems at play, you didn't add anything new or insightful about the plight of prostitutes in the Philippines you just told us they're prettier than expected. you're using a system of oppression as an excuse not to engage criticism and it's dumb as shit.
Actually this post:
futurewidow posted:
how dare women get angry at the exploitation of 3rd world women, how dare they
is peak WDDP. It's passive aggressive, angry at some post that hasn't even been made, full of identity politics on an internet forum (I have no idea if you're even a woman) and just plain obnoxious.
your follow up post is the typical response, to then attack me by saying "well you didn't add anything anyway your OP sucked" when I remember perfectly clearly you didn't add anything interesting to the thread, and the OP had plenty of ideas for interesting discussion. that is such a cop out, you're just annoyed that I'm not riled up I guess.
there's a difference between discussion of oppression as a system, which is fine, and personal attacks for being part of a system of oppression. here's a news flash in case you never leave the house: being with a bunch of guys, alchohol, and girls will result in unequal power relations and people don't use proper gendered pronouns and watching their cisprivelege in a club. when it just becomes a personal attack on me, when i've already acknowledged that the situation i was in caused me to act in ways that contributed to oppression, does nothing except show bitterness and vindictive lashing out.
futurewidow posted:gyrofry posted:
castigating individuals for their consumer choices is creeping methodological individualismhmm yes, buying women is like buying an ipod, plz go on
are you denying that buying ipods is wrong