#1
hrm

preliminary report so only the rok diplomatic source is quoted. take with grain of salt. have comrades in the cpgb-ml heard anything about this?

The Guardian posted:

A senior diplomat from the North Korean embassy in London has defected in the first case of its kind since official ties were established and the embassy opened 13 years ago.

Thae Yong Ho, who vanished earlier this month with his wife and children, was based at North Korea’s suburban embassy in Ealing, west London.

Seoul’s unification ministry confirmed on Wednesday he had recently defected to South Korea with his family.

Thae is the highest-level North Korean official to have defected to South Korea, Jeong Joon-hee, a spokesman at the unification ministry, told a news conference.

He was “sick and tired of the Kim Jong-un regime”, yearned for a liberal and democratic country and was worried about his children’s future, Jeong said.

Jeong suggested that the case showed that disillusionment among North Korea’s ruling class was widespread, with the regime weakening and at “breaking point”.

One of five officials at the embassy in addition to the ambassador, Thae’s job was to keep track of North Korean defectors living in London. He was also tasked with rebutting UK criticism of his country’s human rights record, South Korean media reported.

Thae’s younger son had attended a school in west London, and according to one of his classmates, he vanished in mid-July.

“We were really good friends. He was on Facebook every day and WhatsApp. Suddenly all his social media accounts went dark,” Louis Prior, 19, said.

Prior said his friend had been born in Denmark, where his father was posted. The family returned to North Korea and arrived in the UK four years ago.

Thae’s son had taken his A-levels and was about to take up a place at Imperial College London, studying maths and computer science.

“We have been really worried about him. We all tried his phone. It’s been blocked. He’s a good mate. He just vanished,” Prior said.

The defection is a coup for British and other western intelligence agencies. John Nilsson-Wright, the head of the Asia programme at Chatham House, said the diplomat could have useful insider information on Kim Jong-un’s secretive regime.

“These senior officials are smart, accomplished, well-trained individuals with high levels of English. If sent abroad they don’t spend their time going to cocktail parties. They will be energetic in other activities, including using foul means or fair,” he said.

Intelligence agencies would want to question Thae about Kim’s leadership, the stability of his regime and the fate of senior members of the previous government, some of whom have been purged and executed.

“They would want insight into the last three or four years since he took over,” Nillson-Wright said.

Nillson-Wright described relations between the UK and North Korea as complicated and variegated. Britain has had an ambassador in Pyongyang since 2001. There is an ongoing cultural dialogue, including academic exchanges whereby North Korean students can study at Cambridge university.

North Korea’s foreign minister, Ri Yong-ho, is a former ambassador to London, and has close ties with the current incumbent, Hyun Hak-bong.

The original tipoff that an official had fled came from an anonymous source inside North Korea, NK News reported on Tuesday.

Defecting from North Korea is risky. The regime usually exacts revenge on relatives and friends at home. It has also been known to pursue defectors abroad and, if it finds them, to “mete out draconian punishment”, Nillson-Wright said.

#2
[account deactivated]
#3
the ny times article is, weirdly, better. the reporter actually talked to an expert source and bothered to mention the sanctions. taking the position it doesn't indicate internal strife, too. will be interested to hear what thae has to say when and if he makes a public appearance

New York Times thing

NY Times posted:


SEOUL, South Korea — A high-ranking diplomat from North Korea who was based in Britain has defected to South Korea, officials in Seoul said Wednesday, making him one of the most prominent North Koreans in recent years to abandon their reclusive government.

The arrival of the diplomat, Thae Yong-ho, the No. 2 official in the North Korean Embassy in London, was announced by Jeong Joon-hee, a South Korean government spokesman, at a news conference in Seoul.

Mr. Thae’s defection, a major embarrassment for the North, was hailed as a victory for South Korea, where relations with the North have soured in recent years over Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons program and missile tests.

Mr. Thae is the most senior North Korean diplomat to flee the secretive nation since Jang Seung-gil, the ambassador to Egypt, defected to the United States in 1997, together with his younger brother, a North Korean diplomat in Paris.

“He is one of the most senior North Korean diplomats” to have defected, Mr. Jeong said, adding that Mr. Thae’s wife and children had come to South Korea with him.

Mr. Thae was second only to Ambassador Hyon Hak-bong at the embassy in London.

Mr. Jeong said Mr. Thae and his family had arrived in South Korea “recently.” The spokesman would not say whether the diplomat, who was being debriefed by South Korean officials, had family members left in the North or what countries, if any, he had traveled through.

The mass-circulation South Korean daily JoongAng Ilbo reported on Monday that a North Korean diplomat in London had defected, citing an anonymous source. It did not identify the diplomat, but said he had defected early this month after “painstaking preparation.” By the time other embassy officials began looking for him, he was gone, the paper said.

There was no immediate reaction from North Korea to news of Mr. Thae’s defection. The North has typically called defectors “traitors” or has accused South Korea’s intelligence agency of kidnapping them.

According to Mr. Jeong, Mr. Thae told South Korean officials that he had defected because he was disillusioned with the government of Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader. The diplomat also said that he yearned for the South’s freedom and democracy, and that he wanted to give his children a better future, Mr. Jeong told reporters.

“We see his defection as a sign that some of the core elite in the North are losing hope in the Kim Jong-un regime,” Mr. Jeong said, “and that the internal unity of the ruling class in the North is weakening.”

South Korean officials expressed similar views in April when 13 people working at a restaurant run by the North Korean government in China fled to the South. Officials said that unusual group defection reflected growing dissatisfaction in the North with Mr. Kim’s government.

But analysts here have cautioned against drawing such conclusions. Cheong Seong-chang, a senior North Korea analyst at the Sejong Institute in Seoul, said that isolated defections like Mr. Thae’s should not be taken as an indication of instability in the North, and that there was no sign of an organized challenge to Mr. Kim’s rule.

The South Korean government’s unusual decision to publicize high-profile defectors so soon after their arrivals, as it did with the restaurant workers in April, has led some critics to accuse it of waging a propaganda war against the North.

Under President Park Geun-hye of South Korea, the government has focused its diplomacy on persuading countries around the world to sever economic ties with North Korea. South Korean officials cited recent defectors as proof that some North Korean elites abroad were defecting, rather than facing persecution, as it became increasingly difficult to perform their missions under tightened international sanctions.

The JoongAng Ilbo, first reporting the defection of the diplomat, said he decided to flee because he feared persecution for failing to deal effectively with Britain’s growing criticism of human rights in the North. Mr. Kim, the North Korean leader, has disciplined the military and party elites with frequent reshuffling and executions in recent years.

For South Korea, defecting North Korean diplomats could bring with them an intelligence bonanza. North Korean embassies abroad often have played a crucial role in the North’s efforts to acquire equipment for its nuclear and missile programs and trade in weapons and other illicit goods to raise funds for Mr. Kim, officials in South Korea said.

North Korean diplomats abroad live under tight surveillance, ordered to monitor one another for any sign of betrayal, former defectors have said. The North Korean system also ensures that some family members of diplomats abroad are left at home in the North, effectively making them hostages to discourage defections.

But over the years, some North Korean diplomats have managed to escape. A first secretary at the North Korean Embassy in the Democratic Republic of Congo defected to the South in 1991, followed by Hyon Song-il, a North Korean diplomat based in Zambia. Upon arriving in Seoul in 1996, Mr. Hyon said he followed his wife, who had defected to the South earlier after quarreling with the ambassador, her husband’s boss. A North Korean diplomat based in Bangkok fled to Seoul in 2000 with his family.

The number of North Korean defectors arriving in South Korea dropped from 2,706 in 2011 to 1,275 last year, as Mr. Kim ordered his country to tighten border control with China, the first stop for almost all asylum seekers. The number of defectors began picking up again this year, with 749 arriving in the first six months. Mr. Jeong said recent defectors included people of “more diverse background,” including elite members.

Mr. Thae has been well known to the British news media, acting as the embassy’s main point of contact for British correspondents traveling to Pyongyang. Reuters reported that Mr. Thae spoke regularly at far-left events in London, including meetings of a British communist party where he would make impassioned speeches in defense of North Korea.

Steve Evans, a BBC Korea correspondent who had met Mr. Thae in London, remembered the North Korean as a middle-aged man who appeared to enjoy life in the suburbs of west London, where he used to reside. He frequented an Indian curry restaurant and liked to talk about family and health. He switched to tennis after his wife complained about his obsession with golf.

He was one of the North Korean minders to escort Mr. Kim’s brother, Kim Jong-chol, to an Eric Clapton concert in London last year.

Mr. Thae had been scheduled to return to Pyongyang this summer with his wife and son, Mr. Evans reported. “But he seemed so British. He seemed so at home. He seemed so middle-class, so conservative, so dapper,” he wrote. “He had never given any hint of disloyalty to the regime, not a flicker of doubt.”

#4
yeah the whole thing is pretty odd considering that his speeches & talks to leftists in britian seemed pretty authentic and reasonable about the dprk, socialism, and with a dedicated anti-imperialist line. might have a lot to do with the how much his family & kids were westernized though
#5
now that you mention it the last time me and sam kriss went out to the tennis/country club with thae to do coke and sit by the pool he did say "god is hitlers faggot" but we thought it was just ironic
#6
Hmm presumably he was kidnapped by South Korean capitalists, working in concert with American interests. I'm not aware of any legitimate reason a man and his family would want to leave the glorious and advanced nation of North Korea, undoubtedly the greatest democracy on earth.
#7
Politicians will read anything you put in front of them. He might have just accidentally defected. The teleprompter had the wrong speech in it and everything went wrong from there. I mean look at the Soviet Union, one year all the Communist leaders were saying stuff about the irreversibility of socialist revolution, the next year they owned all the department stores in Omsk.
#8
this is a big setback, for the rhizzone.
#9
Ron Burgendy: Good night, and I defect from USA to people's republic of Congo, San Diego.
#10
This made me very depressed. Luckily the Park administration is hugely unpopular and only has a year left, once she's gone everyone will forget this dude existed except the sad remnants on youtube.
#11
Let this be a lesson: this is what happens when you lie about the Theory of the Productive Forces. Stinking Korean revisionism is lying to its people. The treachery was on FULL display in that last thread about the shitty disneyland orphanage they built -- "Look the western flies dont get as fancy orphanages for their maggots, Korean socialism is better!" It is a GIANT idol to the TOTPF. Korean revisionists say: everyone get rich because of technology; western cowboys say: everyone gets rich because of technology. Well okay, the proof is in the pudding as they say, and one side got all the pudding. If covering up the the universal lessons of global class struggle is homicidal revisionism, the TOTPF is its poison dagger.
#12

swirlsofhistory posted:

Let this be a lesson: this is what happens when you lie about the Theory of the Productive Forces. Stinking Korean revisionism is lying to its people. The treachery was on FULL display in that last thread about the shitty disneyland orphanage they built -- "Look the western flies dont get as fancy orphanages for their maggots, Korean socialism is better!" It is a GIANT idol to the TOTPF. Korean revisionists say: everyone get rich because of technology; western cowboys say: everyone gets rich because of technology. Well okay, the proof is in the pudding as they say, and one side got all the pudding. If covering up the the universal lessons of global class struggle is homicidal revisionism, the TOTPF is its poison dagger.

#13

swirlsofhistory posted:

Let this be a lesson: this is what happens when you lie about the Theory of the Productive Forces. Stinking Korean revisionism is lying to its people. The treachery was on FULL display in that last thread about the shitty disneyland orphanage they built -- "Look the western flies dont get as fancy orphanages for their maggots, Korean socialism is better!" It is a GIANT idol to the TOTPF. Korean revisionists say: everyone get rich because of technology; western cowboys say: everyone gets rich because of technology. Well okay, the proof is in the pudding as they say, and one side got all the pudding. If covering up the the universal lessons of global class struggle is homicidal revisionism, the TOTPF is its poison dagger.


#14
Do we know he didn't just go home and everyone is claiming he defected, like with the woman shot by flak cannons? What's the dprk saying.
#15
apparently the south korean unification ministry has confirmed it, so at the very least they probably have him in custody. the claim seems to be he defected because of a specific disillusionment with kim jong-un
#16
i'm not taking any notice until he surfaces again. i used to be in the CPGB-ML so it'll be interesting seeing their reaction
#17

Horselord posted:

i used to be in the CPGB-ML



catchphrase

#18
once i realized that being a member is just like being a non-member with a newspaper subscription i thought why am i paying for this
#19
You're paying for it so that Britain has a communist revolution!
#20
This might be wierd, but personally I think contributing money and labour to a communist party (or other good group) is very important.

I also think that "membership" of a communist party is exactly what you make of it
#21
I'd literally be like "okay i'm a member what are we doing around here, what should i do, i've never done this before and I don't know"

they'd be like "here's some esoteric 3000 word essays on donbass to hand out outside the job centre" and that'd be it for a month

Edited by Horselord ()

#22
Thats a shame, im guessing no study group in your area then?
#23
we were eventually told to form a study group - which lacking any experienced people (or even people familiar with what we decided to read) basically turned into a twice monthly awkward encounter for me and the 2 teenagers who'd bother to show up

"you read chapter 3?"
"yeah"
"what'd you think of it?"
"was alright."

and then we'd check our phones to see if the others had txt to explain their absence, finish our drinks, and leave

it was a waste of everyone's time and trying to shake the branch out of it's coma with my complete lack of experience was like trying to swim up a waterfall. at the branch level it's not really a party so much as a rudderless group of completely demoralized acquaintances with no idea what to do

Edited by Horselord ()

#24
its at that point comrade you take half an hour before the meeting to draw up a discussion plan and sections of interest to educate the two others who show up. a well-informed vanguard of three can change the world, red salute
#25



He has clearly left to join this supergroup!
#26

aerdil posted:

its at that point comrade you take half an hour before the meeting to draw up a discussion plan and sections of interest to educate the two others who show up. a well-informed vanguard of three can change the world, red salute

Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has

#27

aerdil posted:

its at that point comrade you take half an hour before the meeting to draw up a discussion plan and sections of interest to educate the two others who show up. a well-informed vanguard of three can change the world, red salute



how you expect my dumb ass to play teacher when i know nothing and am also not very smart. like what you're suggesting is far above both my confidence and my ability

#28
mao said something about learning something best through doing it once or twice
#29
just believe in yourself comrade and start with something simple like the manifesto
#30
If you can shitpost you can lead a troika, in my opinion.
#31

aerdil posted:

its at that point comrade you take half an hour before the meeting to draw up a discussion plan and sections of interest to educate the two others who show up. a well-informed vanguard of three can change the world, red salute



also this is more advice than i was ever told in in an entire year of asking the party, including to literally joti brar

#32
damn...im sorry that happened that way. as someone who helped set up a reading group i know how hard it is and how support from others is really essential & how things can fall apart. we set up the cadre development comittee group thing specifically to help in situations like that but its a reletivly recent thing which we can now do because we have more people and more money - we do have a person who goes round the country to help people now

if u feel like rejoining and trying again, contact me, tears, who is actually a pretty nice person irl, am nothing like my posts, and likes to talk about communism. being in a party can be pretty rewarding imo
#33
i'm half wondering if we've met irl now and if you're anyone i pissed off when i left
#34
possible but unlikly unless u left quite recently
#35
around febuary. North West. not doxxing myself further
#36
its pretty common for people to join parties, realize no one in their area has ever been an organizer, and then leave in understandable frustration. why stick around in something if its not doing anything but hanging around? theres lots of new people joining parties. you are responsible for your own development as a communist though. i mean, we all know how resource starved commie parties are, theres not usually paid staff organizing all the newbies across the country

e: sorry, not saying its your fault you had a shitty time inside a party. hope this doesnt come off like a rebuke towards you

Edited by Urbandale ()

#37
we havent met, im other end of country
#38

Urbandale posted:

its pretty common for people to join parties, realize no one in their area has ever been an organizer, and then leave in understandable frustration. why stick around in something if its not doing anything but hanging around? theres lots of new people joining parties. you are responsible for your own development as a communist though. i mean, we all know how resource starved commie parties are, theres not usually paid staff organizing all the newbies across the country



well there you go, if there's no work with the community and its problems, no cadre education going on and you have to self teach then there's no point me being a member is there? i'm no use to the party, the party is no use to me, and neither serves the people. if i have my head together one day then things will but different but until then nah fuck it

#39
yeah, do nothing, learn nothing from doing nothing and hope that in the interim infrastructure magically poofs into existence from the dues yer not paying XD
#40
everyone shut up and watch this video