#1
Mike Nelson here.
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What are your opinions on "Obamacare"?

Here's a critical fact sheet: http://firedoglake.com/fdl-fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/ - Make up your own minds, people.

Personally, I think the Affordable Care Act has a lot of good stuff in it. It's basically the plan that more liberal/moderate Republicans have been pushing since the 1990s, but that's better than what existed before. The main argument against it seems to be that Obama could have got something better through Congress by using his bully pulpit, but personally I doubt it. There are also a lot of bad arguments made, like saying that Americans will be penalized for not being able to afford insurance, but if you do the math this is mostly wrong. There are also important changes to matters like pre-existing conditions and out-of-pocket costs, even if they aren't perfect.

Another thing people say is that if you really want to control costs you'll introduce a public system, but I looked into that before and I think the differences are exaggerated. First, most of the money saved would come from somewhere other than like profit and such, it would come from ratcheting down health care provider pay or delisting services and such, and that money would all go to covering people that are currently underinsured. That might be fairer but it won't save a lot of money.
#2
hi
Post rating: +

getfiscal posted:

Another thing people say is that if you really want to control costs you'll introduce a public system, but I looked into that before and I think the differences are exaggerated.

#3
Nippon
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i want to track down all the obamailures who were saying that obama's double-secret plan was to get obamacare passed and then knocked down by the supreme court so he could be like WOOPS GUESS WE GOTS TO DO SINGLE PAYER :trollface: and fucking punch them in the back a bunch
#4
hi
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congress could have gotten the public option thru by using reconciliation to bust the senate filibuster. they ended up using reconciliation to get the shitty final bill passed anyhow.
#5
US
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works well for my life plan of leeching off parents until 26 and then overdosing on drugs
#6
Mike Nelson here.
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if a strong non-profit option would have transformed the system in some way then unions could have set one up long ago and everyone would just use that. perhaps insurance companies actually deliver value?
#7
Nippon
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HenryKrinkle posted:

congress could have gotten the public option thru by using reconciliation to bust the senate filibuster. they ended up using reconciliation to get the shitty final bill passed anyhow.



greenwald had an excellent piece about this years ago and man oh man do i remember the obamailures rending their clothes

#8
Kurdt
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who cares
#9
Mike Nelson here.
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i find it funny that left-liberals have all these long arguments about how american white people hate blacks and the country is right-wing as hell and such but then when it comes to single payer they think everyone would support it if a black man said nice things about it.
#10
Mike Nelson here.
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gyrofry posted:

who cares

who cares about anything, life is pointless, just float from argument to argument feeding off the affect, duh

#11
Kurdt
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#12
Mike Nelson here.
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I like communism more than white people like mashups.
#13
hi
Post rating: +
everything is shit, life is bullshit, everybody sucks, sucks like a fuck, fuck my life, it fuckin sucks, fuck everything and fuck my life
#14
Mike Nelson here.
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HenryKrinkle posted:

everything is shit, life is bullshit, everybody sucks, sucks like a fuck, fuck my life, it fuckin sucks, fuck everything and fuck my life

actually everything is pretty cool? like the world is real and we're in it and alive and stuff is happening? and you can buy burritos or watch soviet movies or learn about economics and shit? life is cool as hell.

#15
Mike Nelson here.
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why does no one on my facebook understand how the subsidies work. they are all crying because poor people will be FORCED to buy insurance like they have been reading comments on a ron paul blog.
#16
Kurdt
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i'm going to eat ribs nyo
#17
tardy on these heaters
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gyrofry posted:

who cares

#18
tardy on these heaters
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gadamer wrote a book about health care thats definitely way more interesting than gnashing of teeth from various empty-headed "activist" types and opinion-havers about this

http://www.ped.muni.cz/z21/knihy/2008/25/25/texty/eng/solcova_eng.pdf
#19
hi
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:

gadamer wrote a book about health care thats definitely way more interesting than gnashing of teeth from various empty-headed "activist" types and opinion-havers about this

http://www.ped.muni.cz/z21/knihy/2008/25/25/texty/eng/solcova_eng.pdf

well, okay then.

#20
Mike Nelson here.
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"Do as I say, not as I do"
#21
hi
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lol
#22
tardy on these heaters
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getfiscal posted:

"Do as I say, not as I do"



i didnt say ive read it

#23
Mike Nelson here.
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why can't i close my own threads. gender fascism.
#24
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gyrofry posted:



^^ seconded ^^

#25
[account deactivated]
#26
Nippon
Post rating: +
dadgamer
#27
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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With its 5-4 ruling upholding Obamacare the US Supreme Court has joined with the Executive and Legislative branches of the federal government in abandoning the Constitution, the Rule of Law, and with that ruling abandoned the People. All of us are now simply chattel of the government to be used and ordered about as they choose. The history books will mark this date as the day our constitutional republic was killed. It will now rest with We The People to decide if it will be resurrected or left to rot in the shallow grave dug for it.

Where is the weeping and wailing? Where is the anger and outrage? Do the people of the country realize what has just been stolen from them? Do the people of the world recognize that the shadow of darkness is now fallen upon them as well and that there remains no defender of their feeble freedoms? The all out oppression of all people has begun.

Those “occupiers” now controlling the three federal branches of government have joined together in rejecting all Constitutional restraint and in doing so they have severely violated their oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Together they now stand as blatant usurpers of power and have reduced our constitutional republic, along with all of its freedoms, to nothing more than a dictatorial junta. Becoming a banana republic is next.

When a gang of criminals subvert legitimate government offices and seize all power to themselves without the real consent of the governed their every act and edict is of itself illegal and is outside the bounds of the Rule of Law. In such cases submission is treason. Treason against the Constitution and the valid legitimate government of the nation to which we have pledged our allegiance for years. To resist by all means that are right in the eyes of God is not rebellion or insurrection, it is patriotic resistance to invasion.

May all of us fall on our faces before the Heavenly Judge, repent of our sins, and humbly cry out to Him for mercy on our country. And, may godly courageous leaders rise up in His wisdom and power to lead us in displacing the criminal invaders from their seats and restore our constitutional republic.
#28
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
Post rating: ~

getfiscal posted:

why does no one on my facebook understand how the subsidies work. they are all crying because poor people will be FORCED to buy insurance like they have been reading comments on a ron paul blog.



i spent about an hour back and forth email arguing with a self-described "socialist" friend about how the ACA was totally unprecedented for "forcing citizens to buy a private product" (a ridiculous, instantly dispelled notion), and then it turned out he already had 100% free insurance through his employer anyway. he did at least admit he was just being a reactionary babby about it tho

#29
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
i wonder if that dude had two statements prepared where the other one was like in a 5-4 decision our liberties, and our freedoms, but most importantly, our right to personal autonomy, have been upheld by a glorious resistance in the form of our robed minutemen for freedom.
#30
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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you know he did

and has anyone noticed that the second it won the court battle, the media actually started referring to it as the Affordable Care Act instead of "Obamacare" for literally the first time ever, and polled public support for it rose by like 20 points? lol gg America, GO YANKEES
#31
Nippon
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i hope obama slaughters a white man on live tv like Giancarlo Esposito in the episode "Box Cutter"
#32
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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Goethestein posted:

i hope obama slaughters a white man on live tv like Giancarlo Esposito in the episode "Box Cutter"

#33
Mike Nelson here.
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that fire dog lake article says that a family of four with an income of $66,000 will pay $49,435 in necessities. but i looked it up and the EPI (left-wing think tank) estimates that a family of four in a typical city like baltimore will pay $34,732 for necessities - and that includes over $3,000 for out of pocket health care.
#34
Mike Nelson here.
Post rating: ~
on the cbc in 2009 or so they had this story about how people were dealing with the economic crisis and the reporters decided to focus all their attention on a typical family, which was a middle-class one living in a house they owned in the suburbs. anyway they were like yeah life is really tough, we're cutting back all over, really got to make due with less nowadays, it's crazy out there. then it showed them crowding around their giant plasma TV or whatever. and they were asked to list the ways they've cut back and the biggest was that they cut back on their young son's acting lessons and were eating at restaurants less or something.
#35
[account deactivated]
#36
Post rating: ~
The White House continues to insist it is not a tax, despite its ruling as a tax being essential to its approval by the Court.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/235699-white-house-mandate-is-not-a-tax-despite-scotus-ruling
#37
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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technically its closer to a toll or tariff than an actual tax

#38
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Superabound posted:

technically its closer to a toll or tariff than an actual tax



technicolorly, you're gay as a rainbow

#39
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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AmericanNazbro posted:

technicolorly, you're gay as a rainbow




#40
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liberals.jpg