discipline posted:

Goethestein posted:

organized crime really presents a more clear, credible and sustainable vision of a "shadow state" than anything to be found in the whole oeuvre of urban anarchism

wow yeah I guess the zapatistas, naxalites, maoists, and the bolivarian revolution was organized crime lol

first of all, those were all rural and not urban, at least initially. second and more importantly, they were all militaristic open rebellions against the government. open rebellion is a far different beast than building a community organization that comes to supplant the state with nonviolence and filling in its gaps

discipline posted:

Goethestein posted:

organized crime really presents a more clear, credible and sustainable vision of a "shadow state" than anything to be found in the whole oeuvre of urban anarchism

wow yeah I guess the zapatistas, naxalites, maoists, and the bolivarian revolution was organized crime lol

well, from the state's perspective...

The minimum amount of agricultural land necessary for sustainable food security, with a diversified diet similar to those of North America and Western Europe (hence including meat), is 0.5 of a hectare per person. This does not allow for any land degradation such as soil erosion, and it assumes adequate water supplies. Very few populous countries have more than an average of 0.25 of a hectare. It is realistic to suppose that the absolute minimum of arable land to support one person is a mere 0.07 of a hectare–and this assumes a largely vegetarian diet, no land degradation or water shortages, virtually no post-harvest waste, and farmers who know precisely when and how to plant, fertilize, irrigate, etc.

let's be generous here and say that a bunch of urban people with no farming experience or irrigation infrastructure on urban land were able to provide a subsistence diet to the people in their territory on just .15 hectares per person. this comes out to a square 127 feet on a side. an average city block is 311 feet on its side, or about 6 people per block. get 100 people in your movement and you need 17 empty blocks just to feed them.

discipline posted:

wow yeah I guess the zapatistas, naxalites, maoists, and the bolivarian revolution was organized crime lol

all govt is organized crime

But being tough, being armed to the teeth and ready to kick ass, that wouldn’t save you either if it all came down. It’d come down to dull stuff that nobody wants to think about, like organization. That’s what really hits me about these survival fantasies: it’s always about holing up in your house with guns and ammo and years of video-game wet dreams bouncing around in your head.

One question: where you gonna get your water? You can go weeks without food (in my case more like a year; in fact I’d probably be better off after starving for a year or so) but you need water every day. Let’s take California. Last I heard there were 24 million people in So Cal. You know where they get their water? From a tap, yeah; but when the taps stop flowing? Flick that ball socket faucet in your townhouse and a spider drops out? That’s what’d scare me, not armies of zombies or gangbangers.

There are no rivers in So Cal. Ever see the LA River? Sure you have; it’s in about a million movies. It’s where they stage those fake drag races, where T2 drove that semi. It’s a culvert with a trickle at the bottom. 23 million yuppies are going to go from worrying about hydrating every hour to slurping algae from the last puddle in that culvert.

When I was a kid there was a crazy old Okie named Cecil who used to dig wells. I haven’t heard about that job in a long time. If anyone lives long enough and has something to pay them with, the last surviving well drillers will be kings. “Here, how about I trade you my daughter here for a well, sir, your honor, your crustiness?”
I don’t even know where Fresno gets water from; I’ll google it now, see what I get. (Better google while you can, too; internet access will be restricted when the power dies.)

OK, five minutes online and here we are. This is from the City of Fresno’s FAQ page:

WATER SOURCE: Where does our drinking water come from?

For City of Fresno customers, the primary source of drinking water is derived from the Fresno Sole Source Aquifer, a large underground water system that supplies many communities in the San Joaquin Valley. The city operates approximately 250 wells that draw water from this aquifer. The groundwater supply is enhanced by water from the City’s surface water treatment facility which receives and treats precipitation and snow melt water from the Kings and San Joaquin watersheds. Fresno has an aggressive recharge program that is continually finding new places and methods to conduct groundwater recharge. Water recharge operations can slow this decline, but with conservation, you can help have a greater impact.

There was another interesting bit on that page: the groundwater level in Fresno has fallen from 30 feet to 130 feet. That’s a lot of well to drill, especially without fuel.

So instead of arguing about caliber and range, try finding out where the water comes from in your town. Is it even a reservoir, or do they pump it in from somewhere? If they do, you might want to schedule a camping trip to the nearest lake about the time civilization collapses. Otherwise the pipes will go dry and you’ll do what all us loudtalking war nerds will actually do when the world ends: die. Buy the farm, give up the ghost, pay our internet gaming bills for good.

We better hope the end of the world is nice enough to schedule itself for the wet season. “Dear God, Any time between December and April would be fine.” If it’s August, the population of So Cal is going to decline from 23 million to…I dunno, what’s the population of Lake Arrowhead?

Whoever controls water supply will control So Cal, if it ever collapsed. And that won’t be a lone gunman in a tract house in Santa Ana. Those people will die like flies, waiting for an attack they’ve been dreaming of their whole lives while their kids die of waterborne diseases from drinking what’s left at the bottom of the pool.

Noice posted:

MadMedico posted:

In Trinidad and Tobago KFC and Church's chicken are really big and mcdonalds tried to expand there but nobody was interested.

a plurality of trinidad's population is indian

Yes I knew that, I was there, what is your point?

Lykourgos posted:

come on lets stop talking about revolutionary uprisings and strategies, it gets a little ridiculous when you start fantasising about some army of recent immigrants in the worst parts of detroit. The only revolution worth chatting about is one started by peers of the realm, ennobled lawyers and judges, who can use currently existing institutions to enact appropriate reforms.

downvoting this metaphorically lol *gestures And So On*

babyfinland posted:

Instead of writing something why don't you join an organization like www.imancentral.org, or even just go to your local mosque and organize some kind of support thing for people in the community based on their needs

I don't think anyone is interested in Olivia reading about how the Man is keeping us down,.they want decent lives for their families

fuck you

babyfinland posted:

It's gross how you guys talk about poor people as these agency less pawns to be mobilized to perform for your Moses fantasies. And like you come up with these hateful messianic theories for them to consume. It's really weird. If got care about people just go help them and let them make up their own minds about whether they should start a civil war against the government. I know it's easy to say you're down for some ruckus when you're unemployed depressed and alone but most people have real concerns. Glenn beck and Marx and stuff are an entertainment for people, it doesn't represent support for revolutionary war.

yeah what people really want is condescending charity from a piece of shit like yourself, (not that you're willing to stoop so low as to actually give it), NOT political engagement as equals. you're not nearly as smart as you think you are

getfiscal posted:

hi alex how are you. you seem angry.

i'm doing really well but all the crazy lf people are banned and don't make any more crazy posts for me to yell at