#1
http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/lifestyle/2012/10/being-pro-life-doesnt-make-me-any-less-lefty?page=2

Listening to fellow pundits on the left react with rage and disbelief to the support by the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, for halving the abortion time limit to 12 weeks, I was reminded of the late Christopher Hitchens. “nyone who has ever seen a sonogram or has spent even an hour with a textbook on embryology knows that emotions are not the deciding factor ,” wrote the Hitch in his column for the Nation magazine in April 1989. “In order to terminate a pregnancy, you have to still a heartbeat, switch off a developing brain . . . break some bones and rupture some organs.”

It is often assumed that the great contrarian’s break with the liberal left came over Iraq in 2003. His self-professed pro-life position, however, had provoked howls of anguish in progressive circles 14 years earlier. It has long been taken as axiomatic that in order to be left-wing you must be pro-choice. Yet Hitchens’s reasoning was not just solid but solidly left-wing. It was a pity, he noted, that the “majority of feminists and their allies have stuck to the dead ground of ‘Me Decade’ possessive individualism, an ideology that has more in common than it admits with the prehistoric right, which it claims to oppose but has in fact encouraged”.

Blob of protoplasm

Abortion is one of those rare political issues on which left and right seem to have swapped ideologies: right-wingers talk of equality, human rights and “defending the innocent”, while left-wingers fetishise “choice”, selfishness and unbridled individualism.

“My body, my life, my choice.” Such rhetoric has always left me perplexed. Isn’t socialism about protecting the weak and vulnerable, giving a voice to the voiceless? Who is weaker or more vulnerable than the unborn child? Which member of our society needs a voice more than the mute baby in the womb?

Yes, a woman has a right to choose what to do with her body – but a baby isn’t part of her body. The 24-week-old foetus can’t be compared with an appendix, a kidney or a set of tonsils; it makes no sense to dismiss it as a “clump of cells” or a “blob of protoplasm”. However, my motive for writing this column is not merely to revisit ancient arguments, or kick off a philosophical debate on the distinctions between socialism (with its emphasis on equality, solidarity and community) and liberalism (with its focus on individual freedom, autonomy and choice), but to make three points to my friends on the pro-choice left.

First, you do realise that the UK is the exception, not the rule? Jeremy Hunt’s position is the norm across western Europe: 12 weeks is the limit in France, Germany, Italy and Belgium. Then there’s how 91 per cent of British abortions are carried out in the first 13 weeks. You may disagree with a 12-week cut-off but to pretend it is somehow arbitrary, or extreme, or even unique is a little disingenuous.

Second, you can’t keep smearing those of us who happen to be pro-life as “anti-women” or “sexist”. For a start, 49 per cent of women, compared to 24 per cent of men, support a reduction in the abortion limit, according to a YouGov poll conducted this year. “Polls consistently show . . . that women are more likely than men to support a reduction,” says You - Gov’s Anthony Wells.

Then there is the history you gloss over: some of the earliest advocates of women’s rights, such Mary Wollstonecraft, were anti-abortion, as were pioneers of US feminism such as Susan B Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton; the latter referred to abortion as “infanticide”. In recent years, some feminists have recognised the sheer injustice of asking a woman to abort her child in order to participate fully in society; in the words of the New Zealand feminist author Daphne de Jong: “If women must submit to abortion to preserve their lifestyle or career, their economic or social status, they are pandering to a system devised and run by men for male convenience.”

Third, please don’t throw faith in my face. Hitchens, remember, was one of the world’s best-known atheists. You might assume that my own anti-abortion views are a product of my Muslim beliefs. They aren’t. (And the reality is that different schools of Islamic law have differing opinions on abortion time limits. The Iranian ayatollah Yousef Saanei, for instance, has issued a fatwa permitting termination of a pregnancy in the first trimester.)

Demonised

To be honest, I would be opposed to abortion even if I were to lose my faith. I sat and watched in quiet awe as my two daughters stretched and slept in their mother’s womb during the 20-week ultrasound scans. I don’t need God or a holy book to tell me what is or isn’t a “person”. (Nor, for that matter, do I take kindly to some feminists questioning my right to have an opinion on this issue on account of my Y-chromosome.)

Nevertheless, I’m not calling for a ban on abortion; mine is a minority position in this country. I’m not expecting most readers of the New Statesman to agree with me, either. What I would like is for my fellow lefties and liberals to try to understand and respect the views of those of us who are pro-life, rather than demonise us as right-wing reactionaries or medieval misogynists.

One of the biggest problems with the abortion debate is that it’s asymmetric: the two sides are talking at cross-purposes. The pro-lifers speak about the right to life of the unborn baby; the pro-choicers speak about a woman’s right to choose. The moral arguments, as the Scottish philosopher Alasdair Macintyre has said, are “incommensurable”.

Another problem is that the debate forces people to choose sides: right against left, religious against secular. Some of us, however, refuse to be sliced and diced in such a simplistic and divisive manner. I consider abortion to be wrong because of, not in spite of, my progressive principles. That I am pro-life does not make me any less of a lefty.

There are few issues that unite Jeremy Hunt, Christopher Hitchens and me. I’m not ashamed to say that abortion is one of them.

Mehdi Hasan is an NS contributing writer and the political director of Huffington Post UK.



Daphne de Jong’s point about abortion being a part of male capitalist hegemony is interesting. In that light, the rhetoric around “rights” used to justify something completely else brings to mind parallels about human rights discourse being used to justify imperialism.

After all, I imagine many of the reasons for a termination include things such as “the time isn’t right”, “I’m not in the right financial position” and things like this. Can we really state that this is the absolutely individual autonomous choice of the woman? That seems like libertarian ideology. Rather, it’s clear that these decisions happen under the immense pressures of the crazy social and economic conditions that late-capitalism has given us. Is this what we as leftists really want to support?

I would be interested to hear the Rhizzone's thoughts

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#3
Ooohh aye, 'e's a roight crafty bugger issnntn'e?
#4
the argument about consent is pretty shallow. women dont consent to gender inequality at all. the part of the system that is "designed for male convenience" isnt abortion, its unwanted pregnancy, a problem only men are allowed to abandon.
#5

tpaine posted:



hey T one of my friends is up in QLD and just sent me this a few minutes ago, those salties are giant buggers!

#6
'Lefties' generally realize that the Prohibition of something harmful is not the best way to alleviate its social costs!
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#8
abortion rules and there needs to be a lot more of it.
#9
the true leftist is not bound by petty sentiment and recognizes that mass murder is a requirement for a better world. what better sacrifice than the blind, unconscious, undifferentiated alien tadpoles so unwanted that their own mothers want to kill them
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#11
Abortion is the murder of your child
#12
this illustrates the domineering and arrogant paternalism of a hypocritical left that imagines its "duty" to be "protecting the weak and vulnerable, giving a voice to the voiceless," whose natural "right" it is to be thus protected (as long as they remain that way and don't start speaking or acting for themselves -- something fetuses luckily can't do.) this isn't leftism at all but the inherently racist and misogynistic ideological inheritance of colonialism and empire.
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#14
whats even better than that article is hasan's whiny followup in huffpo called ten things i learned from debating abortion on twitter:

I guess I should thank Felix Baumgartner. It was his jump that helped the Twitter mob 'move on' from my column on abortion in the New Statesman - cross-posted on the Huffington Post UK - which had sparked such outrage, hysteria and abuse after it was published online on Sunday morning.

I may be digging myself further into a hole here but, with the benefit of a few hours of sleep, let me outline the ten things I think I learned from trying to debate and discuss abortion online:

1) LANGUAGE MATTERS. A LOT.

First and foremost, I do deeply regret saying that supporters of abortion rights (not women, per se, by the way!) "fetishise... selfishness". Both words are, of course, deeply provocative and negative and I wish, with the benefit of hindsight, that I'd never used them.

Now, some on my side of this argument might say that the dictionary definition of "selfishness" - i.e. "concerned primarily with one's own interests" - makes the word relevant to this debate, on an abstract, ethical level, but that is beside the point. My use of it in this piece caused needless offence and hurt and, for that specifically, I want to apologise - especially to any female readers who have had to undergo an abortion, something I, of course, as a man, will never have to go through.

I normally write quite polemical and provocative columns but, when writing this particular piece, I did try to be careful and restrained in my use of language and avoid gratuitous abuse of my opponents - clearly, I wasn't careful or restrained enough.

2) LABELS MATTER. ON BOTH 'SIDES'.

Many commenters on Twitter took offence at my self-identification as 'pro-life'. Now, I readily admit that 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' are inaccurate, unhelpful and quite loaded phrases (who is anti-life? who is anti-choice?) - but what are the alternatives? What else do we have? In his blogpost in response to my column, Hope Sen embraces the phrase 'pro abortion' but I know that many abortion-rights activists recoil from its implications. Meanwhile, it's worth pointing out that the likes of Caroline Criado-Perez (@weekwoman) have no right to criticise me for using the term 'pro-life' if they, at the same time, uncritically embrace the equally propagandistic and useless term 'pro-choice'.

3) TWO SIDES TO EVERY ARGUMENT? NOPE

What became apparent quite quickly yesterday is that, for some 'pro choicers', there aren't two sides to every argument. I was told again and again by commenters on Twitter that there is no legitimate 'pro life' (or 'anti choice') position - which makes some of the the criticisms of my use of the words "selfishness" and "fetishise" (see point 1 above) a little irrelevant. It slowly dawned on me, at about 5pm on Sunday evening, that no matter how politely, gently and sensitively the anti-abortion case is expressed in the future, people on the 'pro-choice' liberal-left will never want to hear it. As Hopi Sen put it: "Every other argument, no matter how complex or technical, becomes secondary... What's more, they feel like issues on which there is little room for compromise, and on which I am right, and those who disagree with me are, bluntly, wrong." Or as one commenter on Twitter put it: "One thing that really gets on my nerves about @mehdirhasan's comments is that there isn't even a debate to be had about abortion." Er, ok.

Now I happen to respect the 'pro choice' argument and accept it has a strong ethical foundation; the obverse, however, doesn't seem to the case. To hold 'pro life' views in modern Britain invites instant rejection and ridicule, as well as all sorts of repulsive and unwarranted accusations: yesterday, I was called, among other things, "evil", "sexist", "misogynist", "dictator" (despite the fact that I was "not calling for a ban on abortion; mine is a minority position in this country"), "dickhead", "irresponsible bum", "the enemy", and, in the words of Labour blogger Hopi Sen - in a post that was lauded by, among others, Laurie Penny and Diane Abbott MP - "a self righteous little prick" (Hopi later added: "I'm not saying Mehdi Hasan is a SRLP, but that his argument left me with the reaction 'Mehdi Hasan is a SRLP'". I guess that's ok then.)

Oh, and one 'pro choice' blogger compared me to Jimmy Savile. Classy.

4) FORGET THE FOETUS

I received hundreds and hundreds of tweets yesterday; the vast majority of them were critical of my position and a significant chunk of those were abusive. I can count on two hands the number of commenters who engaged with my claim that "a baby isn't part of body" and has rights of its own. If I am guilty of not giving due weight and attention to women's rights in my piece - and my critics do have a point here - then the 'pro choicers' online were equally guilty of ignoring the foetus, being unwilling to engage in the debate over 'personhood' and, in some shocking cases, dehumanising the foetus in order to score a point. I was astonished by the number of commenters on Twitter who referred to the foetus as a "cancer", a "lump of flesh", a "parasite" and a "cake" (as in, "cake in the oven").

The Independent's Musa Okwonga says this morning that he has "never known a woman considering abortion who has not thought, long and heart-breakingly hard, of the unborn child". I'm sure that's true - but, sadly, the afore-mentioned tweets might suggest that's not always the case.

5) IT'S ALL ISLAM'S FAULT!

Muslims, it seems, aren't allowed to have independent political or moral views. Within minutes of my piece being published online yesterday morning, the precocious (pompous?) Economist reporter Daniel Knowles accused me of being "dishonest" about the real reason for my 'pro-life' position which was driven by...wait for it...yes, Islam! Despite the fact that Islamic law has no fixed, single position on abortion and despite me making clear in the piece that I would be anti-abortion "even if I were to lose my faith". To be fair, Knowles later apologised and deleted the tweet. Still, would a Jewish or Hindu journalist be accused of hiding the 'real reasons' for their views, in a similar fashion, I wonder?

6) MY OPPONENT'S OPPONENT IS...NOT MY FRIEND

You know you've upset the liberal-left when Dan Hodges, Nadine Dorries MP and Damian Thompson rush to your defence on Twitter. Argh!

7) UNHITCH FROM THE HITCH

Quoting the late, not-so-great Christopher Hitchens at the outset of my column was a bad move. "I don't know why you bother to cite Hitchens," tweeted the Times' Janice Turner. "His sexual politics appalling. Reductive about anything which matters for women." Labour councillor Ed Davie tweeted: "quoting drunk, turncoat, neocon Hitchens shows weakness of anti-choice argument". Ouch.

8) NOT-SO-FREE SPEECH

The reaction from left-liberal, 'pro-choice' commenters on Twitter yesterday reminded me that the right may have a point when they object to the left's shrill, one-sided, close-minded response to any attempt to debate certain social and ethical issues. In the wake of yesterday's Twitterstorm, I was depressed to find myself nodding along to a leader in today's Telegraph: "he most notable feature of the current debate is not the victimisation of those who have abortions, but the vilification of those who in any way criticise the system."

On a related note, on Thursday, I was told by David Aaronovitch at a debate in the LSE that Muslims need "to get a thicker skin" and "be less touchy". Yesterday, I discovered that those who are liberally-inclined on abortion are quite touchy and have very, very thin skins. Oh, and many of them believe that half the world's population (i.e. men) should not have a say on one of the world's most controversial and important moral issues.

9) WE ARE NOT ALONE

'Pro-life' lefties do exist - several well-known individuals emailed and DM-ed me their support. But they were afraid to do so publicly. Yesterday's Twitter mob frenzy (see points 3 and 8 above) will only have reinforced their conviction that if you're a progressive and 'pro-life', it's best to lie low. One well-known female journalist told me recently: "I can't write about this issue."

10) I GIVE UP

The truth is that abortion is too heated, emotive and complex an issue to debate in 140 characters. Or, for that matter, in 950 words.


In conclusion, I wrote this column, not because I wanted to have a row about abortion or "climb on a bandwagon" (as bandwagon-climber-in-chief Diane Abbott claimed in a tweet), but because I desperately wanted "my fellow lefties and liberals to try to understand and respect the views of those of us who are pro-life, rather than demonise us as right-wing reactionaries or medieval misogynists".

Yesterday's Twitter responses show that I failed to persuade them to do so. Partly, through a loose use of language (i.e. "selfishness", "fetishize", etc); partly, however, because sections of the 'pro-choice' liberal-left aren't willing to acknowledge that abortion isn't a black-and-white issue; it's a complex moral debate, involving rights and responsibilities, life and death, on which well-meaning, moral people come to different ethical conclusions.

To go back to my original column, which so few on Twitter seemed to have bother to read before unleashing their hate, anger and bile:

"One of the biggest problems with the abortion debate is that it's asymmetric: the two sides are talking at cross-purposes. The pro-lifers speak about the right to life of the unborn baby; the pro-choicers speak about a woman's right to choose. The moral arguments, as the Scottish philosopher Alasdair Macintyre has said, are 'incommensurable'."




this owns particularly because hasan obviously doesnt fucking "get" macintyre

#15
my god have i fallen into an alternate universe where a 12 week old fetus has a functional central nervous system?!?
#16
Im not realyl a lefty, im more ambidextrous lol.
#17
My god--- doesnt the argument between the partisans of right-handedness and of left-handedness find its ultimate expression in Stalin's formulation of Leftist and Rightist deviations? They are BOTH worse!!
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#20
bell hooks is not impressed with this thread

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#23

Wickerman posted:

my god have i fallen into an alternate universe where a 12 week old fetus has a functional central nervous system?!?



A utilitarian appeal to scientific authority, thank you comrade

#24

discipline posted:

I believe that half the world's population (i.e. men) should get vasectomies before they have opinions on childbearing



that's reasonable.

#25
on the otherhand: being pro-death certainly makes you more of a communist
#26

discipline posted:

I believe that half the world's population (i.e. men) should get vasectomies before they have opinions on childbearing


keep your opinions away from my body!

#27

discipline posted:

I believe that half the world's population (i.e. men) should get vasectomies before they have opinions on childbearing


vasectomies are not pro-life

#28
If a woman transitions to a man, does he get to have an opinion about abortion or is this trans privilege where they get to comment and opine about woman's issues even though they are men now?
#29
Abortion on demand is a valuable entrenched "right" in the rich world. Goldman Sachs used to ask female interviewees if they woul have an abortion for the sake if their career; do we really believe the expression of modern patriarchy is forcing a woman to carry another child of his, rather than avoid the consequences of his recreational sex? I don't necessarily believe in the total prohibition of abortion, but to casually and unflinchingly accept it has always struck me as something that requires a certain measure of sociopathy
#30
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#31
and feminism is misandry and about punishing men. the answer lies somewhere in between, a happy medium of civil and economic liberties.
#32

discipline posted:

pro-life arguments are, on the whole, about punishing women for having sex, not about saving lives



Yes, I agree, but the approaches taken by blustering Republican bigots doesn't really invalidate being pro-life

#33
and yet isnt the radical feminists opposition to the idea of rewarding women for having sex itself a way to punish women for having sex
#34
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#35
let the market decide imo
#36

Agnus_Dei posted:

Abortion is the murder of your child



kaiser soze feminism, showing 'men of will' what true will really means

#37
australia is probably the best country that is technically part of the west

#38
i believe everyone should be punished for having sex
#39
fetuses within the first & second trimester have no sense of pain or awareness and third trimester abortions are done in rare & extraordinary circumstances in which the woman is at risk of serious harm and/or the baby has deformities or illness that will kill it soon after being born anyways.

this isn't hard.
#40
bump