#121
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actually strenuous physical exercise is just as good imo
#122
Nippon
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chomsky in one of his critiques of pomo pointed out that there was a statement released by a french archaeological team that did some kind of research and found out that one of the Pharaohs died of tuberculosis, and one of the pomos in france said that was outrageous because tuberculosis wasn't discovered until the 19th century. sapir whorf
#123
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#124
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#125
Kurdt
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sapir whorf
#126
Nippon
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adama: so say pir whorf
crew: so say pir whorf
#127
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roseweird posted:

jools posted:
actually strenuous physical exercise is just as good imo


yeah, i mean really anything that reminds you that you are alive and thinking and feeling and your nervous system is useful for things other than combining words all the time



Those who can't do, think

abstract 'thoughts' of the kind you're talking about are the original sin of humanity: they condemn us to pointless introspection, nomadism and neurosis. Any revolutionary program that truly wants to create a better world is going to have to work out how to make it's subjects a whole, whole lot dumber

Any time a human is thinking, they are rationalizing their own impending death, what kind of way of life is this? Fuck teachers are the education mafia, they're worse than the fashion industry in the false, bitter ideology they push

#128
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roseweird posted:

also swirls learning to play music can give you a lot of insight into the nature of thought and language imho. probably math too but i wouldn't know, i am not good at math



disagree, i play and compose some music and the beauty of it is that it's a respite from thought and language

#129
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#130
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#131
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music is painful
#132
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roseweird posted:

iwc you have a preoccupation with "original sin" and knowledge, you are applying the same fear of intelligence to abstract thought that you previously applied to technology. i agree that abstract thinking and technology do not make us happy, but this original sin thing is going to lead you into the madness of a search for a peaceful and good time in history, a point when things were good and safe, and you will not find it, you are going to wear yourself out trying to think of ways to contain human ingenuity



i didn't hire you as my psychiatrist Rosie, and you can't apply upper west side solutions to all the world's problems

#133
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#134
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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Speaking of music, isnt believing that language predates thought kinda like believing that music predates sound? Yes.
#135
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wasted posted:

music is painful



music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

#136
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

wasted posted:

music is painful

music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible


romanticism is dead m8

#137
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wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
music is painful
music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

romanticism is dead m8



I feel truly sorry for you if you believe this

#138
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
music is painful
music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

romanticism is dead m8

I feel truly sorry for you if you believe this


the romantic musical movement had a good run (the entire 19th century no less) but it's a dead horse essentially. don't confuse love with the sublime

#139
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wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
music is painful
music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

romanticism is dead m8
I feel truly sorry for you if you believe this

the romantic musical movement had a good run (the entire 19th century no less) but it's a dead horse essentially. don't confuse love with the sublime



have you not heard of emo or something?

#140
Not Your S.H.I.E.L.D.
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sorry but hes right. sublime music died in 1996, youve got to let it go
#141
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Even music that I hate, I ultimately have more respect for than academics that I love.

The humanities and critical theory in particular is all about tearing things down: removing the building blocks of society and morality without offering anything to replace them with. It is a destructive discipline, whereas music is about creation….the simple, beautiful act of filling the world with something joyous that was not there before
#142
Nippon
Post rating: +
sapir whorf support: the word in japanese for rape is "reipu." which means that until westerners arrived japan was rape-free. nice job commodore matthew "chandler" perry
#143
Kurdt
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noice
#144
[account deactivated]
#145
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wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
music is painful
music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

romanticism is dead m8

I feel truly sorry for you if you believe this

the romantic musical movement had a good run (the entire 19th century no less) but it's a dead horse essentially. don't confuse love with the sublime



is morton feldman's or salvatore sciarrino's or sofia gubaidulina's music not of the sublime? or the spectralists like claude vivier and horatiu radulescu, sublime / jouissance whatever. it's not been just reductionist silence or serialist wanking obv. lots and lots, and those are just the big names. and that's just mentioning entirely new music too, obviously neoromanticism is a thing

Edited by prohairesis ()

#146
Nippon
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lol http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549252&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post415427180
#147
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I’m not going to go through your entire post this time Roseweird and pick out what’s wrong. I can’t make heads nor tails of sentences like these:

the self is identical with its physical reality, and its physical reality includes individual consciousness as an expression of its total nervous system.


we are rooted in being itself first of all, in wordless, undifferentiated reality, in full experience of all and nothing without distinction.


solipsism is mitigated by communication, but most of our being is inaccessible to others. we are whole to ourselves and other to others.



I think it’s strange that you say a name is just a sound someone says to get your attention -- which I kind of agree with -- and then start going on about ‘the self’, as if there is a reified thing called ‘the self’ or, ungrammatically put, ‘the I’. Surely if a name calls attention to an individual, a pronoun like ‘I’ which changes based on who utters it, doesn’t really represent any thing, but is really only a way of drawing attention to something related with the person uttering the sentence. So much for anxiety about parts of the self.

It’s probably true that early words like ‘ma ma’ are learnt as ways of getting the mother to come. That has a sense, i.e.“come feed me”. But uttering a simple command like ‘ma ma’, isn’t learning how to say things about mama, as if now that the baby knows how to say ‘mama’, he can say other things about an object called ‘mama’. This requires a more sophisticated mastery of words and the grammatical rules for their use, for instance how to use the word ‘ma ma’ in a way that makes her and not ‘da da’ go away, or that gets the baby milk instead of mushy carrots.

In the end, I don’t think you really believe what you write, or at least you ignore it in the rest of your non-philosophizing life. People are not constantly asking what others mean, or interpreting things others said in their own idiosyncratic way. It’s only when things are unclear, where there’s a possibility for ambiguity, that people want to know what something means, and only a response that is less ambiguous or unambiguous can satisfy as an answer. Constant disagreements over meaning are only very common in philosophy and theology, where ordinary language has been distorted to produce the kind of nonsensical pseudo-propositions that you’ve been coming up with.

#148
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Superabound posted:

Speaking of music, isnt believing that language predates thought kinda like believing that music predates sound? Yes.


No.

#149
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roseweird posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
have you not heard of emo or something?


... lol? emo is the continuity of the romantic tradition, iwc? really?



yes, it is A continuation of the romantic tradition, obviously

#150
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#151
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#152
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prohairesis posted:

wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

wasted posted:

Ironicwarcriminal posted:
wasted posted:
music is painful
music is one of the few avenues of the sublime still widely accessible

romanticism is dead m8

I feel truly sorry for you if you believe this

the romantic musical movement had a good run (the entire 19th century no less) but it's a dead horse essentially. don't confuse love with the sublime

is morton feldman's or salvatore sciarrino's or sofia gubaidulina's music not of the sublime? or the spectralists like claude vivier and horatiu radulescu, sublime / jouissance whatever. it's not been just reductionist silence or serialist wanking obv. lots and lots, and those are just the big names. and that's just mentioning entirely new music too, obviously neoromanticism is a thing


Berg often used romantic tonal harmonies and centers in his music but the structure used was nonetheless dodecaphonic (not saying always or strictly but it certainly was his launching point like it was for Webern/Schoenberg after their experiments in free atonality.) Totalizing harmonies, gargantuan orchestras, free-wielding chromaticism (again I'm only highlighting the later trends of the period)can still be used by composers today and still are, but to lump the neoromantic movement with romanticism and to see their aesthetic aims as similar in resting in the "sublime" affects misses the point.

#153
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#154
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No, 'I' does not refer to "the body that is speaking." It's not a definite description since it can refer to anyone (and therefore no referent in particular), nor is it a demonstrative pronoun like 'this'. Whereas 'this' may refer or not refer depending on the state of affairs, the use of 'I' can never fail to refer, and thus it can't be synonymous with "the body that is speaking", which can fail, for instance, if the body is not in fact speaking.

I say language precedes thought because I'm not working on some philosophical definition in which 'thought' is synonymous with 'mental event' or 'consciousness'.
#155
mt.real
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roseweird you're cool give up before your mind is swirled away
#156
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#157
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#158
D.C.
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I've forgotten whatever point I was trying to make. I was going to post something about honest signaling but I realized I was just posting reactively with no reference to what had been the original point of dispute, so I'm just going to shuffle quietly out of the thread
#159
political car tune
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

lol http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3549252&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post415427180


for those who haven't subscribed:

#160
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What about languages where people don't say "I" or conjugate verbs in first person?