#81
Poronto
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for a long-frustrated geographer you don't seem to have much interest in looking at the details of ethnic distribution within luton or wherever or acknowledging that the percentage of browns within a certain city doesn't really tell us a great deal about the reality of segregation on the ground. Richmond c.a. 1860 had a high percentage of black people after all
#82
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ok i have heard this too, thanks for respondin'

what do you mean by new capital accumulation in the north that helps warehouses to still survive, where is that capital coming from?

SovietFriends posted:

+ its also driven by everyday of growing up an area which saw a surge of bnp support in white areas where people never mixed with asians such as the lancashire enclaves a few towns away from the integrated towns where racism was that more all or nothing problem i talked about



ok i have heard this too, thanks for respondin'

what do you mean by new capital accumulation in the north that helps warehouses to still survive, where is that capital coming from?

I've been overegging the pudding here but i do have to say that mendleson's excuse for immigration, 'to rub the right's noses in diversity' is one of the most irresponsible justifications for public policy in recent history.

Between that and a PR guy being commander in chief, i do see why there is so much venom towards the political class, whatever shape it takes.

#83
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capital developed in immigrant communities plus connections to 'homelands' has created jobs manual jobs in northern communities basically

its the classic ghetto capital accumulation + skills resulted in local investment and although its nowhere near the same as it was pre-thatcher and they still don't compete in scale with places like warburtons (a national bread brand in the UK) the patchwork and fluidity of the companies which usually make and import shit like food, furniture, car parts has slowed the decline of national investment in the area
#84
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and i get that you want a more solid justification for immigration then loving diversity but by and large the discussion around immigration is poisoned by almost wholly by the point that immigrants are not classed as part of the working class

turning that into a proper argument which links none stupidly into the idea of "divide and conquer" plus an appreciation of underdevelopment, imperialism as well as zones of underdevelopment even in the core states is something i have never done and in part that would require appreciating how the "white" working class are effected by the process in a very concrete way beyond though not ignoring the cultural problems of immigration however to search constantly to hide the ridiculously indepth assault on immigration as well as the way that it can be overcome through integration by just justifying a stereotype of the "white" working classes attitude is bad form and although commendable in terms of trying to avoid the RACISM IS IGNORANCE. malarky also completely miscaractersis how the "white" working class see the world including the way it can change

p.s. i feel daft for using " over white multiple times but i am trying to say that they are well more fluid then white people plus white working class is a word which kind of points to race as key uniting factor when as a whole the working class even the culturally white English are proper divided by a million billion lines
#85
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nah cheers it's been helpful, and don't worry i'm not actually a Fascist Now but these issues have been swept under the carpet for decades now. And yes i know that might sound annoying because the papers and news are full of anti-immigrant sentiment but by the time it reaches the real political class there is no actual addressing of public concerns. This subsequent professed shock and concern about the EDL by many of the left thus seems to be to be deeply disingenuous.

way that it can be overcome through integration



This is all very well and good to say but saying this doesn't make it happen, it's about as solid as saying something like.....my ennui can be overcome through transcendence; the idea that waving a policy wand and throwing around some money will somehow magically 'integrate' two peoples with rather different cultural practices and values strikes me as the fantasy of an aloof technocrat.

#86
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jools posted:

can we ban all these nazis



N-n-nooo!!

#87
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Ironicwarcriminal posted:

This subsequent professed shock and concern about the EDL by many of the left thus seems to be to be deeply disingenuous.



The debate in real life is actually pretty good its a shame it doesnt extend much into the media.

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

This is all very well and good to say but saying this doesn't make it happen, it's about as solid as saying something like.....my ennui can be overcome through transcendence; the idea that waving a policy wand and throwing around some money will somehow magically 'integrate' two peoples with rather different cultural practices and values strikes me as the fantasy of an aloof technocrat.



It is kind of as simple as having people living near each other as far as I can tell. Like literally having mixed estates and social spaces.

Its shocking the difference in attitude you hear on council estates in Manchester between starkly white enclaves areas like Salford where the rise of BNP literally matches the rise of council house waiting lists and the more mixed estates in Bolton (outside of the one or two heavily Asian areas) where despite the rise of council house waiting lists racism is much more benign (though it still exists but more primarily as a language problem with all the problems that brings though that is obv not as bad as the rise of far right parties with a street presence)