aerdil posted:
i remember trolling teh fuck outta ppl on lf that the fukushima was going to be a lot worse than they thought... i vaguely recall a certain thug lessons being one of those folks but i could be wrong

Trolling? That's pretty fucked up man.

aerdil posted:

guidoanselmi posted:
ultimately it's based on abstraction and if having faith in abstraction is your thing, consider looking into it but recognize its limitations in describing reality.

Herbert Marcuse posted:
From this stage on, all thinking that does not testify to an awareness of the radical falsity of the established forms of life is a faulty thinking. Abstraction from this all-pervasive condition is not merely immoral; it is false. For reality has become technological reality, and the subject is now joined with the object so closely that the notion of object necessarily includes the subject. Abstraction from their interrelation no longer leads to a more genuine reality but to deception, because even in this sphere the subject itself is apparently a constitutive part of the object as scientifically determined. The observing, measuring, calculating subject of scientific method, and the subject of the daily business of life - both are expressions of the same subjectivity: man. One did not have to wait for Hiroshima in order to have one's eyes opened to this identity. And as always before, the subject that has conquered matter suffers under the dead weight of this conquest. Those who enforce and direct this conquest have used it to create a world in which the increasing comforts of life and the ubiquitous power of the productive apparatus keep man enslaved to the prevailing state of affairs. Those social groups which dialectical theory identified as the forces of negation are either defeated or reconciled with the established system. Before the power of the given facts, the power of negative thinking stands condemned.

The power of facts is an oppressive power; it is the power of man over man, appearing as objective and rational condition. Against this appearance, thought continues to protest in the name of truth. And in the name of fact: for it is the supreme and universal fact that the status quo perpetuates itself through the constant threat of atomic destruction, through the unprecedented waste of resources, through mental impoverishment, and - last but not least - through brute force. These are the unresolved contradictions. They define every single fact and every single event; they permeate the entire universe of discourse and action. Thus they define also the logic of things: that is, the mode of thought capable of piercing the ideology and of comprehending reality whole. No method can claim a monopoly of cognition, but no method seems authentic which does not recognize that these two propositions are meaningful descriptions of our situation: 'The whole is the truth,' and the whole is false.

i'm p sympathetic to this and wanna respond to this but it'd help to read the whole thing to better know the context. the googlebook cuts stuff out

babyfinland posted:

in the history of science class i took last quarter we defined it - for the purposes of crafting a historical narrative - as collectively-held knowledge of the natural world

objectification of the natural world for study is ok. there's a pretty solid line (for physics & chemistry) between that objectification of the natural world in an ethical framework that leads to policy decisions and, say, weapons building. thus the distinction between science and technology.

your mileage may vary when it comes to biology and experimentation.

and then for people who look to science as a religion, well, uh:

shennong posted:
sam harris is a worthless shithead. since when do you get to be a "neuroscientist" for shoving a bunch of assholes in an MRI? more like BLOOD FLOW ANALYSIS TECHNICIAN

hes jewish

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
guidoanselmi the ultimate science worshiping idolator munafiq...

i honestly think most people in the sciences, or at least the people i've worked with, have been pretty even keeled and put their faith elsewhere - even the atheists and secularists. maybe it's the younger generation, of which i'm a part of, that worships ted talks. the 'grey beards' at least have enough humility to know how primitive our understanding and work really is.

aerdil posted:
i remember trolling teh fuck outta ppl on lf that the fukushima was going to be a lot worse than they thought... i vaguely recall a certain thug lessons being one of those folks but i could be wrong

well i sure did laugh at the d&d idiots who thought that anything that doesn't kill you, such as a little radiation, makes you stronger

Groulxsmith posted:
i wish brother adso posted here

yeah we need the happy liberals you run into irl like brother adso, duck monster, tias, etc to troll. otherwise it's just depressed liberals like wddp and they're no fun.

EmanuelaOrlandi posted:
yeah it's sort of an echo chamber here sometimes.. what we need is more people who volunteer at gay-friendly scandinavian soup kitchens for sure

as a white anti-racist,

Richard Dawkins has a distinguished British pedigree. Struggling working class he is not. Prof. Dawkins is widely described as “strident.” Indeed the word “strident” almost seems to be a standard honorific associated with Richard Dawkins, as in “The Strident Prof. Richard Dawkins.”

Given all this, why should I care in the slightest whether the owner of some country club in Michigan cancels a reception for The Strident Prof. Dawkins? It’s a fair question. After all, the owner of the country club in question, the Wyndgate, learned from one Bill O’Reilly that The Strident Prof. Dawkins is …hold on to your chair…an atheist.

Dawkins has nice digs in Oxford. The owner or owners of this formerly obscure Michigan country club did not put the lash to the Dawkins back. Dawkins was not broken on the wheel. Dawkins will continue to be invited to receive honorary degrees and be honored at fine dinners throughout the world. Indeed Dawkins will continue to be revered by scientists and atheists from Dubuque to Darjeeling.

One Facebook post, from an atheist, called on Dawkins to quit whining. (Though, for the record, Dawkins has not whined to my observation, nor does he even plan to sue the country club despite a solid case).

However, let us also concede this entirely accurate point: Richard Dawkins will survive Wyndgate’s cancellation. The owner of the Wyndgate is apparently atheist-averse. And why can’t the owner of this Michigan country club simply make his own business decisions? It’s his country club after all?

His club. His business. His name. His decision! Quit Whining, you Strident Atheist Dawkins you!

.....

So, yes, being tossed from some obscure country club won’t hurt Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins is a man who, through earning his own way as a great scientist, does indeed hold a place of privilege, yet that earned rank of merit is sometimes dismissed -- because the timid find his honesty threatening. When the Detroit Free Press reported that Dawkins – an atheist, they blared – had been booted from a Michigan country club, the paper did not mention his many honorary degrees. They did not mention that he earned his way, through scientific reasoning and many eloquent books, into both the Royal Society and the Royal Society for Literature. To the Detroit Free Press apparently, once an atheist, that is all you are. No, they did not list his qualifications, but the qualifications Dawkins has earned, through the power of his mind and effort, do protect him more than others in society as a whole.

.....

In truth, the injustice to Richard Dawkins, by virtue of his very prominence, underscores the more insidious, more widespread, and most frequently ignored injustices to average citizens as a result of religious bias in American policy.

We are forced to ask, if this can happen to Richard Dawkins (who has the clout to speak for himself), who will speak out for the janitor, the school teacher, or the clerk when they dare to stand up to a thuggish bully like the owner of the Wyngate Country Club?

The Richard Dawkins Foundation US stands ready to confront these bullies -- like the owner of the Wyndgate, and the blustery politicians who will say anything to pander to the loud crowd. We will stand up to those who dare to smear their oily maliciousness on the Constitution of the United States of America. We will stand up to those who trash the most revered legislation of the 20th Century, the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The Richard Dawkins Foundation stand ready to work with you, to organize, and speak out.