#241
Tsipras' oratory to the Greeks:

Fellow Greeks,
For six months now the Greek government has been waging a battle in conditions of unprecedented economic suffocation to implement the mandate you gave us on January 25.

The mandate we were negotiating with our partners was to end the austerity and to allow prosperity and social justice to return to our country.

It was a mandate for a sustainable agreement that would respects both democracy and common European rules and lead to the final exit from the crisis.

Throughout this period of negotiations, we were asked to implement the agreements concluded by the previous governments with the Memoranda, although they categorically condemned by the Greek people in the recent elections.

However, not for a moment did we think of surrendering, that is to betray your trust.

After five months of hard bargaining, our partners, unfortunately, issued at the Eurogroup the day before yesterday an ultimatum to Greek democracy and to the Greek people.

An ultimatum that is contrary to the founding principles and values of Europe, the values of our common European project.

They asked the Greek government to accept a proposal that accumulates a new unsustainable burden on the Greek people and undermines the recovery of the Greek economy and society, a proposal that not only perpetuates the state of uncertainty but accentuates even more the social inequalities.

The proposal of institutions includes: measures leading to further deregulation of the labor market, pension cuts, further reductions in public sector wages and an increase in VAT on food, dining and tourism, while eliminating tax breaks for the Greek islands.

These proposals directly violate the European social and fundamental rights: they show that concerning work, equality and dignity, the aim of some of the partners and institutions is not a viable and beneficial agreement for all parties but the humiliation the entire Greek people.

These proposals mainly highlight the insistence of the IMF in the harsh and punitive austerity and make more timely than ever the need for the leading European powers to seize the opportunity and take initiatives which will finally bring to a definitive end the Greek sovereign debt crisis, a crisis affecting other European countries and threatening the very future of European integration.

Fellow Greeks,

Right now weighs on our shoulders the historic responsibility towards the struggles and sacrifices of the Greek people for the consolidation of democracy and national sovereignty. Our responsibility for the future of our country.

And this responsibility requires us to answer the ultimatum on the basis of the sovereign will of the Greek people.

A short while ago at the Cabinet meeting I suggested the organization of a referendum, so that the Greek people are able to decide in a sovereign way.

The suggestion was unanimously accepted.

Tomorrow the House of Representatives will be urgently convened to ratify the proposal of the Cabinet for a referendum next Sunday, July 5th on the question of the acceptance or the rejection of the proposal of institutions.

I have already informed about my decision the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany, the President of the ECB, and tomorrow my letter will formally ask the EU leaders and institutions to extend for a few days the current program in order for the Greek people to decide, free from any pressure and blackmail, as required by the Constitution of our country and the democratic tradition of Europe.

Fellow Greeks,

To the blackmailing of the ultimatum that asks us to accept a severe and degrading austerity without end and without any prospect for a social and economic recovery, I ask you to respond in a sovereign and proud way, as the history of the Greek people commands.

To authoritarianism and harsh austerity, we will respond with democracy, calmly and decisively.

Greece, the birthplace of democracy will send a resounding democratic response to Europe and the world.

I am personally committed to respect the outcome of your democratic choice, whatever that is.

And I'm absolutely confident that your choice will honor the history of our country and send a message of dignity to the world.

In these critical moments, we all have to remember that Europe is the common home of peoples. That in Europe there are no owners and guests.

Greece is and will remain an integral part of Europe and Europe is an integral part of Greece. But without democracy, Europe will be a Europe without identity and without a compass.

I invite you all to display national unity and calm in order to take the right decisions.

For us, for future generations, for the history of the Greeks.

For the sovereignty and dignity of our people.

Athens, June 27, 1 am.

Translated by Stathis Kouvelakis

#242

getfiscal posted:

earlier today i told a KKE supporter:

"I think it's possible that the drift to the right will be complemented by a left pivot that will confuse people. The published deals they are circulating are barbaric but there are a lot of left gestures Tsipras could do that the Syriza middle could campaign on."

which i guess this is part of the left pivot. they want a snap referendum to avoid a fear campaign from the EU, and so they can't starve them in two weeks. i have some very basic problems with it i guess but we'll see how it goes. one main problem is that everyone gets a say, so if the working class says no then it gets imposed on them by the bourgeoisie. there's also the issue that the quality of grexit probably matters more than grexit itself, it's a precondition like nationalizing the banks. there are a lot of countries with large social ownership of financial institutions (even present-day germany) which are not socialist in any real sense.

yeah thats what came out of the jacobin interviews i looked at. the left platform with all the maoists in it is saying 'we need to nationalize the banks and pick the good ones and implement rationing and re-nationalize electricity' and I'm like, ok, and what are you doing in the second hour after grexit

#243
im curious what the founding values of europe are and where europe was founded and when and what europe is exactly
#244

stegosaurus posted:

what are you doing in the second hour after grexit

kke's warsaw pact larping committee has somewhat detailed plans of what they would do.

#245
I can't express how much that's my shit
#246

the Euro-army, Europol, the European Gendarmerie etc.



oh noo

#247
just want to reiterate here that punk ninja is a white supremacist since he's arguing both for a biological basis for race as well as race being some eternal category. and thus, he belongs in ifap, where queen white supremacy rules
#248

stegosaurus posted:

I can't express how much that's my shit

confession: i feel like trying to abolish the commodity character of labour in greece is probably a fool's errand. i mean at least the soviet union had enormous resources, including it's best resource, people.

#249
Bank run is real now in Greece. Should've bought Bitcoins (self.Bitcoin)
submitted 2 hours ago by Nooku
Already 500 out of 7000 ATMs in Greece are now out of money. Lots of banks have decided to stay closed today (Saturday). Lots of banks are also planning to stay closed on the upcoming monday.
The bank run is real.
Photos of people queing at ATMs at 2 AM in the morning:
photo1
photo2
photo3
photo4
Officially they'll of course avoid calling it a bank run to not cause any panic but these pictures say enough...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3bawus/bank_run_is_real_now_in_greece_shouldve_bought/
#250
Eurozone ministers reject Greek bailout extension: sources

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/614808569700073472

ELA is dead, referendum is pointless now.

EUROGROUP PRESS CONFERENCE CALLED OFF IN BRUSSELS

EURO-AREA FIN. MINISTERS TO CONTINUE TALKS WITHOUT GREECE: ANP

EUROGROUP TO RECONVENE AFTER BRIEFING W/O GREECE: EU OFFICIAL
#251

Crow posted:

just want to reiterate here that punk ninja is a white supremacist since he's arguing both for a biological basis for race as well as race being some eternal category. and thus, he belongs in ifap, where queen white supremacy rules


communism was invented largely by white and jewish people. also where did i argue for any of those things???? i just pointed out that white supremacy is unlikely to be overthrown before we go extinct (sometime in the next 200-500 years)

#252
the biological basis for race is the human mind, which likes to invent categories to oppress others, and skin color, the thing latched onto to create the categories.
#253
lmao
#254

getfiscal posted:

stegosaurus posted:

I can't express how much that's my shit

confession: i feel like trying to abolish the commodity character of labour in greece is probably a fool's errand. i mean at least the soviet union had enormous resources, including it's best resource, people.

this ragtag band of principled anti revisionists has a crazy idea to overthrow all existing conditions... And it just might work

#255
ah, yes. white supreamcy is likely to not be overthrown in 200-500 years. yes



yess.. the biological basis for race is the brain and skkkin color.. uyesss



communism was invented by white jews, yes!! !yeSS!!!



FUck Ye SS!!!


#256
The White Men of Greece, Who invented the Dialectical Method,
#257
Our evolutionary ancestor, the White Man ape,
#258
#259

Crow posted:

The White Men of Greece, Who invented the Dialectical Method,


lol

#260
r>c>p u fux
#261
God & Race are both equally Real
#262
& gendeR i bet none of you have even read Being & Time
#263
when did race start
#264
when it was invented to preserve the system of slavery? i think probably January 7th, 1657
#265
the race started when Cop Tom fired the gun, actually.
#266
when was God invented?
#267

Crow posted:

just want to reiterate here that punk ninja is a white supremacist since he's arguing both for a biological basis for race as well as race being some eternal category. and thus, he belongs in ifap, where queen white supremacy rules



Many white supremacists also agree that Slavs aren't white so it doesn't seem to be an issue, I guess that's the sad irony of euthenic (or extremely constructivist) approaches to "race theory" that end up reaching consensus with the essentialist racists.



That's why common sense concepts like "white trash" are useful, without disrespecting actual PoC.

Chears.

#268

NoFreeWill posted:

the biological basis for race is the human mind, which likes to invent categories to oppress others, and skin color, the thing latched onto to create the categories.



Crow is being dishonest and blinded by explosive anger as usual. I think you mean (& I agree) that it's dangerous to argue for Slavs being non-white because of historical blood grievances in Europe, it's tantamount to Israeli/European Jews whining they "aren't really white." Sure, but not really, and Zionism is steeped in white supremacy as are most right-wing Slav nationalisms. You could ask the Eastern European gypsies (who truly know what being non-white is like.)

Cheers.

#269
im so tired of this dude and his shtick
#270
I try to be as Marxist as possible in all things but even I was fooled into thinking defaulting on IMF debt actually does anything until Michael Roberts told me better. Dunno why, imperialism may be a paper tiger but the troika and the power of finance capital is not so pathetic they are just bluffing. There's been a lie that Keysnian's have started that Argentina defaulting on the IMF or Iceland defaulting on EU debt was awesome and everyone should do it. Obviously this is the essence of the liberal worldview distilled, that everyone is rational and class conflict/economic crisis is a matter of incorrect information and bad policy.

Whether SYRIZA nationalized the economy or not, whether it stays in the Eurozone or not, whether it defaults on its loans, all of these are irrelevant to the iron laws of political economy. Someone is going to nationalize the economy, it's the only way to prevent massive capital flight and an even deeper depression. Greece will be kicked out of the Euro, it simply doesn't have the ability to pay its debt or do what the troika asks of it. The next recession is coming and it will cause a much worse situation for Greece which is already in deep depression. all we can hope is it's the KKE this happens under and not Golden Dawn.
#271
their 2013 program argued that any national savior government would fail for precisely that reason and the deepening crisis could lead to war in the region or in greece itself. it also states that in that event they are wholly prepared to be the vanguard against capital and the invader. i do not read this as posturing, but genuine, and i am aware of their history during the civil war, but i dont know if the party or its cadre really are ready for that. in any case the lack of european or international socialists to oppose outright fascists taking power in ukraine doesnt inspire me with confidence that they'll do anything close to concrete opposition against their imperialist states waging war on Greece, something that seems to me to be fairly essential here.

Edited by Urbandale ()

#272

Urbandale posted:

their 2013 program argued that any national savior government would fail for precisely that reason and the deepening crisis could lead to war in the region or in greece itself. it also states that in that event they are wholly prepared to be the vanguard against capital and the invader. i do not read this as posturing, but genuine, and i am aware of their history during the civil war, but i dont know if the party or its cadre really are ready for that. in any case the lack of european socialists to oppose outright fascists taking power in ukraine doesnt inspire me with confidence that they'll do anything close to concrete opposition against the war.

is this one of the those place where a well-meaning first world leftist could actually get involved and help out somehow without getting locked up for aiding terrorists or hanged for being a nato infiltrator

#273
repeat travel advisories over recent years probably means the u.s. government watches who goes there but imo, so what
#274
imo i cant wait to travel to greece to play revolutionary and write a book like all those lads in the spanish civil war, which will likely have a similar result
#275
sorry that was pretty cynical and dumb, feel free to downvote that
#276
sadism is merely the disavowal of masochism
#277
lol

#278
im not sure travelling to other places to fight is what we should be doing, though part of me finds it appealing. assuming the more leftist hands get to areas targeted for destabilization the better, we still have the problem of what we will be doing once we get there. many western european anti-fascist volunteers who went to the Ukraine had no firearms experience or correct engagement/disengagement procedures (less an issue for russians and ukrainians given conscription). in some ways this is a good problem, as it demonstrates that the cause is so apparent that the bricklayer will travel to fight, but thinking about the logistics of training foreign green volunteers into a militia presents a number of strong disincentives.

at the same time we also have institutions in various countries that leftists could be using to assist these struggles from afar. while things like solidarity committees and medical aid groups fall into this category, as does stego's earlier idea of a red tradesmen delegation to rebuild countries attacked by US imperialism. or it can be more direct, as tactics used by remnants of Anti-Racist Action in the states/canada or especially Antifaschistische Aktion in germany given that country's role in both greece and ukraine. but these organizations arent opposing their governments actions, and in the us these types might have quite a hard time doing any organized training.

in the end a permutation is probably required. many of us can learn to operate basic machinery that could be helpful in times of accelerated crisis, and those of us in the US dont need to rely on ARA-types to do this, as the local gun club will likely suffice. this can be easier to organize in some respects than putting together a sustained solidarity committee to fund medical aid, as anyone who has done prison solidarity work or solidarity strikes can attest. that said i brought up stego's 'red star lines' idea because it could seriously work.

Edited by Urbandale ()

#279
Me: (Narrated over that shot from jurassic park when they are first flying to the island) "Greece. Home of the Gretchens. This archigelato, the crucible of philosophy and fucking drunk sailors alike, is now a new home of a new set of contradictory characters: the well meaning idealist communists, heads in the clouds, always hoping to save greece from some new low in miserable poverty, and the bullet spraying pro-slavery fascist junta that keeps their feet on the ground. Its just me, my suitcases, my PA, two camera guys, one sound guy, my producer and $55,000 of video production equipment, and our special prison-bellied Agusta 109 in a this weeks special episode of I Fail to Overcome My Personal Problems Against Whatever Backdrop of a Pointless Civil War I Pretend To Have a Stake In"
#280

swampman posted:

Me: (Narrated over that shot from jurassic park when they are first flying to the island) "Greece. Home of the Gretchens. This archigelato, the crucible of philosophy and fucking drunk sailors alike, is now a new home of a new set of contradictory characters: the well meaning idealist communists, heads in the clouds, always hoping to save greece from some new low in miserable poverty, and the bullet spraying pro-slavery fascist junta that keeps their feet on the ground. Its just me, my suitcases, my PA, two camera guys, one sound guy, my producer and $55,000 of video production equipment, and our special prison-bellied Agusta 109 in a this weeks special episode of I Fail to Overcome My Personal Problems Against Whatever Backdrop of a Pointless Civil War I Pretend To Have a Stake In"

lmao