deadken posted:i have never experienced any level of shame about anything, maybe u should try that
what are your objections to this suggestion, exactly, silent downvoters
deadken posted:psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
cleanhands posted:thats kind of what made me think to ask, because I'm obviously mildly depressed a lot of the time, but my mum calls it 'feeling grumpy', so I call it that, so everyone calls it that, and all of a sudden it's just a cute, even attractive, personality trait. women love a grouch, it turns out
i wonder if that was a deliberate move on sesame street's part, to characterize depressed people as being angry, lazy grouches who lived in filth but nonetheless had more to them that you'd love if you just talked to them and took an interest
with a less loving family i could have come to think of my actual personality as an illness, and tried to cure myself of it, which is terrifying!
it's pretty terrifying when your personality and identity becomes pathologised and suddenly everything is a symptom because it's really hard not to internalise that shit
i would like to draw attention to this again because this is one of things it touches on http://www.freedom-center.org/pdf/debreidystigma.pdf
Petrol posted:deadken posted:
psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
does CBT really work in the long run, it seems like it's just telling people things that are absurdly obvious.
taoismlibertarianism posted:does CBT really work in the long run, it seems like it's just telling people things that are absurdly obvious.
its usefulness comes precisely from the fact that it's not about telling people things, it's about developing specific strategies to combat irrational thoughts and self-destructive behaviors. a lot of the time the "things that are absurdly obvious" ARE obvious to a person on an intellectual level but that in itself isn't helping at all, yknow?
makes a lot more sense to me than endlessly talking about one's childhood and popping pills, anyway. ymmv.
tpaine posted:dm posted:from some private messages i'm just starting to figure out how badly some things i said in that ill-fated thread were misinterpreted. getting a bit sick of being the object of other peoples' neuroses.
sorry. i just like sending people extremely ribald sex jokes every hour on the hour. you could have left anytime. you could have
they weren't always jokes!
crustpunk_trotsky posted:dm makes associations and connections that are sensible to someone with his set of knowledge and specific frame of mind at that point in time then posts as if everyone else was thinking the same thing which is what weirds some people out, as if he's constantly laughing at some private little injoke. hth
that's pretty much it, though i do admit that i can be unfair with it at times. having an abnormal frame of mind is hard sometimes
Petrol posted:whats wrong with CBT
i did CBT in a really bad context once and it was kinda traumatizing. i've had an understandable aversion to it ever since
Edited by dm ()
germanjoey posted:Impper posted:dm the way you talk recently i always get the sense that you have been copy pasting your posts from somewhere else, and most of them are responses to people on another forum. that is my Impression yall
i never get that impression... to me, the aesthetic comes across more like, a purified "in medias res" of posting. like dm's been thinking very carefully about something for hours, and then decides to post, but the post isnt grounded by the previous hours of thought? something like that. kinda like the literal opposite of some E/N forum poster who's like "Um, Ok, so, let me start with a little backstory... I was going to the Mall to, get a gift for my mom for Mother''s Day and, *5000 words later* and, so now I think I might have raped her, but I'm not sure about the technical definition of rape? Should I tell try talking with my Lawyer, about this goons?"
the backstory is like flashbacks and stuff. i came to know the person in question while we were both undergoing institutionalized child abuse and she was quite a bit younger than me.
this person really did contact me and other people for help to avoid more institutionalized child abuse and i felt helpless (and until recently, guilty) about not being able to do anything even though there was nothing i could do (it turns out that somebody else was able to help). this person was literally blocked out of my memory and even trying to reestablish contact with me while i was making effort posts for you guys on LF when i really could have used somebody to talk to about all of it.
add social pressures that are like i was getting back in touch with somebody from high school and my entire nervous system coming back to life and, yeah, it's going to turn out a bit weird. sorry about that, but it's all cleared up pretty well now except for some people having to wait and make sure i'm going to act in a more or less predictable fashion to be comfortable talking to me again.
this is my little private joke you see. all of that was going through my head and it was like everyone was just chanting "fuck her, fuck her, fuck her"
from the OP:
This general introduction distinguishes the emotional responses to the shame-avoidance based disconnect and the particular manners of framing them. When there is an in-place cult control system in the community, "trauma identity" is provided by the values of community and the social bonds supported by them. When there is an operant rage-terror system, the "social death sentence" critique makes the social distancing more transparent and the shame more accessible. In sum, when labeling is dominant, social bonding suffers, and emotional disconnect results; the advocacy of trauma psychology and the 'social death sentence' naturally comes to the fore.
Distanced human beings are vulnerable to manipulation and behavior management. The inauthentic emotional expression and interaction is consequent upon their objectification as being imperfect, inadequate or deviating from popular opinion. The perception of the dominant 'medical model' system is that their deficit condition requires management that sustains the distancing. Thus they are kept at a social distance, with insecure social bonding, and they experience the social death sentence in ordinary interactions.
Edited by dm ()
I'm going to take the high ground and not name names, but this poster has gone out of their way to give the worst possible interpretations to some stuff I said. This includes subsequently reinterpreting some stuff that I said in light of stuff I said to someone else and then making up issues for me after refusing to talk to me about entirely different ones.
Get over yourself. I haven't interfered with your personal life or your reputation here and don't have any intention of doing so. Being worried based on a past bad experience is certainly justified, but it's like you've been waiting for me to react in a hostile or otherwise inappropriate manner in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy or something when this is the closest that I'm going to get. If you still want to talk to me privately to resolve any of this, you can go ahead and use me as shelter.
Edited by dm ()
dm posted:Oh, and with respect to a certain poster here and some boundary issues (reciprocal ones). I can take responsibility and apologize for what it looked like, but I would be being completely dishonest if I took responsibility for what it was.
I'm going to take the high ground and not name names, but this poster has gone out of their way to give the worst possible interpretations to some stuff I said. This includes subsequently reinterpreting some stuff that I said in light of stuff I said to someone else and then making up issues for me after refusing to talk to me about entirely different ones.
Get over yourself. I haven't interfered with your personal life or your reputation here and don't have any intention of doing so. Being worried based on a past bad experience is certainly justified, but it's like you've been waiting for me to react in a hostile or otherwise inappropriate manner in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy or something when this is the closest that I'm going to get. If you still want to talk to me privately to resolve any of this, you can go ahead and use me as shelter.
So what your saying is you eat poop and Im the greatest
swampman posted:That was me right. You meant me. Really dont like the implication that posters have interactions that im not involved in.
it's a bit different when there are a lot of interactions about you that don't involve you
...SEVERSEVERSEVERSEVERSEVSDFSEFK:SD
cleanhands posted:so its a choice between talking stuff through with your friend or making effortposts for us?
...SEVERSEVERSEVERSEVERSEVSDFSEFK:SD
no, i'm kinda done here at least for a while because it's the same situation with my friends. i'm just supposed to play the entertainer or w/e. if you asked my friends what was going on with me they would take the "personal" out of "going through some personal shit" and that's about it.
it's hard not to feel like my very existence is somehow inconvenient to people when i don't take on that role, but putting myself in that position has proven to be very bad for me in the past.
dm posted:Oh, and with respect to a certain poster here and some boundary issues (reciprocal ones). I can take responsibility and apologize for what it looked like, but I would be being completely dishonest if I took responsibility for what it was.
I'm going to take the high ground and not name names, but this poster has gone out of their way to give the worst possible interpretations to some stuff I said. This includes subsequently reinterpreting some stuff that I said in light of stuff I said to someone else and then making up issues for me after refusing to talk to me about entirely different ones.
Get over yourself. I haven't interfered with your personal life or your reputation here and don't have any intention of doing so. Being worried based on a past bad experience is certainly justified, but it's like you've been waiting for me to react in a hostile or otherwise inappropriate manner in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy or something when this is the closest that I'm going to get. If you still want to talk to me privately to resolve any of this, you can go ahead and use me as shelter.
you did a what on a what
dm posted:cleanhands posted:so its a choice between talking stuff through with your friend or making effortposts for us?
...SEVERSEVERSEVERSEVERSEVSDFSEFK:SDno, i'm kinda done here at least for a while because it's the same situation with my friends. i'm just supposed to play the entertainer or w/e. if you asked my friends what was going on with me they would take the "personal" out of "going through some personal shit" and that's about it.
it's hard not to feel like my very existence is somehow inconvenient to people when i don't take on that role, but putting myself in that position has proven to be very bad for me in the past.
you arent supposed to play anything, i assume you post because you see the value in making your own posts
Petrol posted:deadken posted:psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
it generally only addresses the surface symptoms of neurosis, rather than the core events that caused it.
swampman posted:you arent supposed to play anything, i assume you post because you see the value in making your own posts
i don't and i've got a lot of other stuff to do. any residual drama can sort itself out
babyfinland posted:Relationship (to forums) Status: It's complicated
now that i have my head on straight enough to listen, i'm going to follow the advice of my former fellow Troubled Teen and get the fuck away from my family for a while. it's not something i can post about really. it's not you, it's me.
methlabretriever posted:Petrol posted:deadken posted:psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
it generally only addresses the surface symptoms of neurosis, rather than the core events that caused it.
by events you mean the things that happened in the past or do you mean what those events did to the brain/mind because "addressing" the first is absurd and addressing the second has no guarantee of being anything to do with what the event was.
methlabretriever posted:Petrol posted:deadken posted:psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
it generally only addresses the surface symptoms of neurosis, rather than the core events that caused it.
okay thanks l ron hubbard
Doug posted:methlabretriever posted:Petrol posted:deadken posted:psychiatry is bogus, better twelve volumes of the deranged oedipal ramblings of cokey von freud and twenty nonsensical seminars from loopy lacan than a single cognitive behavioural therapy session or one milligram of non-recreational drugs
whats wrong with CBT
it generally only addresses the surface symptoms of neurosis, rather than the core events that caused it.
by events you mean the things that happened in the past or do you mean what those events did to the brain/mind because "addressing" the first is absurd and addressing the second has no guarantee of being anything to do with what the event was.
both. cbt isn't an inherently bad form of therapy, certainly there is value in teaching "proper" behavior, but it seems less "complete" or "robust" than psychoanalysis.
i would really like to see something that fuses cbt with psychoanalysis.
deadken posted:many of the concepts of psychoanalysis are obviously outdated but its central principles are necessary and their neglect in current practice is literally worse than hitler
same but organized religion
deadken posted:many of the concepts of psychoanalysis are obviously outdated but its central principles are necessary and their neglect in current practice is literally worse than hitler
Yeah let's compare and contrast disease models like idiots and never improve psychology forever, because we are the dumbest people on the planet, our minds are Blanker than a ghost playing poker, because we are so damn stupid our dreams are in 640x480 resolution with fewer than 256 colors.