#121
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

the state should be allowed to murder its own citizens assuming that those citizens can be reasonably proven to have done something deserving it



In which the state is the one which reasonably proves to itself they deserve it. Great thinking.

#122
Nippon
Post rating: ~
actually, what constitutes "deserving it" is decided by society and morality. the state merely attempts to prove that the person is guilty
#123
Post rating: ~
anyway the state murders hundreds of people every week just through standard operating procedures, the injection chamber is just a bit of red meat to throw at rubes
#124
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

actually, what constitutes "deserving it" is decided by society and morality. the state merely attempts to prove that the person is guilty



agreed, sentencing should be decided by an American Idol style phone poll

#125
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

actually, what constitutes "deserving it" is decided by society and morality. the state merely attempts to prove that the person is guilty



I mean if we're living in Candy Land, sure. But in real united states world morality is decided by the state and distributed to the people, and "society" is just the sick LARPing adventures of mindless slaves play-acting the roles the government has demanded of them.

#126
Nippon
Post rating: ~
morality isnt decided by the state in the usa
#127
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa



Oh yeah? Then where does it come from?

#128
Kurdt
Post rating: +
steven spielberg
#129
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gyrofry posted:

steven spielberg



Statist propagandist if there ever was one.

#130
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Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa



no it was decided by a variety of European states throughout history.

#131
Nippon
Post rating: ~

Paradol posted:

Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa

Oh yeah? Then where does it come from?



public consensus

#132
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

Paradol posted:

Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa

Oh yeah? Then where does it come from?

public consensus



Well, that's adorable.

#133
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:

Paradol posted:

Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa

Oh yeah? Then where does it come from?



public consensus



how is this consensus interpreted and codified

#134
Kurdt
Post rating: +
through sophisticated facebook and twitter-based analytics
#135
Nippon
Post rating: ~
just a reminder that of the hundreds of people executed over the last, say, two decades, not one of them has been demonstrated to be innocent! what good odds
#136
hi
Post rating: ~
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Cameron_Todd_Willingham_Wrongfully_Convicted_and_Executed_in_Texas.php
#137
Kurdt
Post rating: +

Goethestein posted:

just a reminder that of the hundreds of people executed over the last, say, two decades, not one of them has been demonstrated to be innocent! what good odds

what about osama bin laden

#138
Nippon
Post rating: ~

HenryKrinkle posted:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Cameron_Todd_Willingham_Wrongfully_Convicted_and_Executed_in_Texas.php



says them.

#139
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

Goethestein posted:

Paradol posted:

Goethestein posted:

morality isnt decided by the state in the usa

Oh yeah? Then where does it come from?



public consensus

how is this consensus interpreted and codified

How demmocracy formed. How country get governmant

#140
[account deactivated]
#141
penitent
Post rating: +
the death penalty is fine but the way its carried out in 'civilised' nations is repulsive. they sterilise the needle before lethal injections, they carry them out in antiseptic white rooms, it's utterly obscene. if you are going to kill a man, kill a man; shoot him in the heart. don't turn death into a medical procedure. bring back hanging.
#142
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

the death penalty is fine but the way its carried out in 'civilised' nations is repulsive. they sterilise the needle before lethal injections, they carry them out in antiseptic white rooms, it's utterly obscene. if you are going to kill a man, kill a man; shoot him in the heart. don't turn death into a medical procedure. bring back hanging.



i, too, am deeply concerned about the aesthetics of execution

nah, the current ways are plenty brutal, often enough:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/some-examples-post-furman-botched-executions

#143
Post rating: ~
May 2, 2006. Ohio. Joseph L. Clark. Lethal Injection. It took 22 minutes for the execution technicians found a vein suitable for insertion of the catheter. But three or four minutes thereafter, as the vein collapsed and Clark’s arm began to swell, he raised his head off the gurney and said five times, “It don’t work. It don’t work.” The curtains surrounding the gurney were then closed while the technicians worked for 30 minutes to find another vein. Media witnesses later reported that they heard “moaning, crying out and guttural noises.” Finally, death was pronounced almost 90 minutes after the execution began. A spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Corrections told reporters that the execution team included paramedics, but not a physician or a nurse.
#144
penitent
Post rating: ~
however prolonged or brutal an execution, the man dies at the end. dead men don't care. the aesthetics of the thing remains
#145
Post rating: ~
December 13, 1988. Texas. Raymond Landry. Lethal Injection. Pronounced dead 40 minutes after being strapped to the execution gurney and 24 minutes after the drugs first started flowing into his arms. Two minutes after the drugs were administered, the syringe came out of Landry's vein, spraying the deadly chemicals across the room toward witnesses. The curtain separating the witnesses from the inmate was then pulled, and not reopened for fourteen minutes while the execution team reinserted the catheter into the vein. Witnesses reported "at least one groan." A spokesman for the Texas Department of Correction, Charles Brown (sic), said, "There was something of a delay in the execution because of what officials called a 'blowout.' The syringe came out of the vein, and the warden ordered the (execution) team to reinsert the catheter into the vein."
#146
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

however prolonged or brutal an execution, the man dies at the end. dead men don't care. the aesthetics of the thing remains



Sept. 15, 2009. Ohio. Romell Broom. Lethal Injection. Efforts to find a suitable vein and to execute Mr. Broom were terminated after more than two hours when the executioners were unable to find a useable vein in Mr. Broom’s arms or legs. During the failed efforts, Mr. Broom winced and grimaced with pain. After the first hour’s lack of success, on several occasions Broom tried to help the executioners find a good vein. “At one point, he covered his face with both hands and appeared to be sobbing, his stomach heaving. Finally, Ohio Governor Ted Strickland ordered the execution to stop, and announced plans to attempt the execution anew after a one-week delay so that physicians could be consulted for advice on how the man could be killed more efficiently. The executioners blamed the problems on Mr. Broom’s history of intravenous drug use. As of Oct. 1, 2010, Mr. Broom remained on Ohio’s death row.

#147
penitent
Post rating: ~

VoxNihili posted:

deadken posted:

however prolonged or brutal an execution, the man dies at the end. dead men don't care. the aesthetics of the thing remains

Sept. 15, 2009. Ohio. Romell Broom. Lethal Injection. Efforts to find a suitable vein and to execute Mr. Broom were terminated after more than two hours when the executioners were unable to find a useable vein in Mr. Broom’s arms or legs. During the failed efforts, Mr. Broom winced and grimaced with pain. After the first hour’s lack of success, on several occasions Broom tried to help the executioners find a good vein. “At one point, he covered his face with both hands and appeared to be sobbing, his stomach heaving. Finally, Ohio Governor Ted Strickland ordered the execution to stop, and announced plans to attempt the execution anew after a one-week delay so that physicians could be consulted for advice on how the man could be killed more efficiently. The executioners blamed the problems on Mr. Broom’s history of intravenous drug use. As of Oct. 1, 2010, Mr. Broom remained on Ohio’s death row.



the fact that nobody during those two hours could have shot mr broom through his head and ended his suffering is proof of how criminally dissolute & anaesthetic contemporary society has become. mr broom lol

#148
Nippon
Post rating: ~
interesting. if you destroy your veins, you become Unverwüstliche
#149
Nippon
Post rating: ~
#150
penitent
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:



deadken posted:

what does 502 bad gateway mean. surely as the gateway is a mechanism for the control of flows the designation 'bad' needs to be problematised, spatialised, historicised.... bad for whom? a gateway that is entirely open signals an illusory disinhibition while continuing to insist on a distinction between Inside and Outside, it is a laceration in the fragile membrane of the State that by its openness only reinforces its autonomy.... or, taking the opposite example, a gateway entirely closed projects a metaphysical openness that, while failing to be re-presented in actuality, nonetheless expresses a hauntological trace of the open gate, a locus for the formation of radical critiques..... we must pay especial atention to the language of error and transgression, because it is when the forums are down that their true nature is revealed. goey pls institute a programme of deconstructive web coding. ty

#151
Nippon
Post rating: ~
the notion of a "bad" gateway is vaguely homophobic imo
#152
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:



about two years back some Utah guy on death row insisted through a few legal manoeuvres and loopholes to get the firing squad which was pretty cool

Belarus still does the old school shot to the back of the head

#153
penitent
Post rating: ~
yeah i remember reading about that, and how angsty everyone got about having to give the man a dignified death instead of strapping him to an antiseptic table and having a doctor give him an injection to turn his veins into plasticine or w/e.

the true test of a society is how it kills its criminals. to not do it all is kinda symptomatic of the metamodern age's really weird neuroses about mortality but to medicalise the procedure shows a remarkable lack of respect for both life and death imo
#154
Post rating: +
free pex
#155
Post rating: ~

deadken posted:

yeah i remember reading about that, and how angsty everyone got about having to give the man a dignified death instead of strapping him to an antiseptic table and having a doctor give him an injection to turn his veins into plasticine or w/e.

the true test of a society is how it kills its criminals. to not do it all is kinda symptomatic of the metamodern age's really weird neuroses about mortality but to medicalise the procedure shows a remarkable lack of respect for both life and death imo



Watch into the abyss if you haven’t already. The interview the former executioner in particular is intense

#156
Post rating: ~
more like crapital punishment
#157
Post rating: ~

Ironicwarcriminal posted:

i watched Rules of Engagement recently and was gobsmacked. Waco is one of those things from the hazy memories of my early childhood and i had no idea about the sheer malevolence of the government's actions





(watched RoE last nite; shocking stuff)

#158
Dont Mess With Sucess
Post rating: +

deadken posted:

VoxNihili posted:

deadken posted:

however prolonged or brutal an execution, the man dies at the end. dead men don't care. the aesthetics of the thing remains

Sept. 15, 2009. Ohio. Romell Broom. Lethal Injection. Efforts to find a suitable vein and to execute Mr. Broom were terminated after more than two hours when the executioners were unable to find a useable vein in Mr. Broom’s arms or legs. During the failed efforts, Mr. Broom winced and grimaced with pain. After the first hour’s lack of success, on several occasions Broom tried to help the executioners find a good vein. “At one point, he covered his face with both hands and appeared to be sobbing, his stomach heaving. Finally, Ohio Governor Ted Strickland ordered the execution to stop, and announced plans to attempt the execution anew after a one-week delay so that physicians could be consulted for advice on how the man could be killed more efficiently. The executioners blamed the problems on Mr. Broom’s history of intravenous drug use. As of Oct. 1, 2010, Mr. Broom remained on Ohio’s death row.

the fact that nobody during those two hours could have shot mr broom through his head and ended his suffering is proof of how criminally dissolute & anaesthetic contemporary society has become. mr broom lol

you are coming at it backwards. it is now all about the aesthetic of the narrative. our culture can't act very rationally or ethically about capital punishment (or much else) because it is mesmerized by the aesthetic purity of the tragedies and comedies and parables and metaphors the current system generates. we see that they're so appropriate to the system, the endemic problems, they are representative of larger trends, mirrors to society, and all that shit, and we think we can perceive the whole majesty through the lens of Mr. Broom, and its just all.. so... poignant.....

#159
Poronto
Post rating: ~
ken as the resident Chair Emeritus of Aesthetics here@the rhizzone can u please rate the following methods of execution

- hanging
- shooting (firing squad or pistol to back of head)
- guillotine
- Spanish garrote
- electric chair
- nitrogen chamber (doesn't cause convulsions like cyanide u just go to sleep)
- breaking on the wheel
- that thing with the flies and the milk and the honey
- gladiatorial combat
- ejection into the vacuum of space
- death by mau mau
#160
Post rating: ~
Aesthetics only relates to pre-modern forms of capital punishment. Crucifixion or stoning I think have a stronger more visceral meaning to the average person than the antiseptic means we exterminate unwanted elements of our social harmony. Alas, Ken thinks that the Prussian state had the right idea with regards to relative painless mercy whereas the Romans wanted to draw the animus out of its condemned through painful confession, formal or otherwise. But whatever, hurf de durf biopolitics or w/e.