#1
Post rating: +
Ok, we're going to go through this slowly. There are certain very bad places that you may or may not have heard about before. If you have, what you have heard is to some extent wrong. If the image is anything at all like a spoiled rich white kid doing drugs with dumb parents who paid a lot of money, that would be it. This, and a multitude of other bizarre tactics that are covering up very horrible things is what we will be investigating.

After you've acclimated yourself to that, here is a totally cynical political attack ad that sort of incidentally features one of these places.

Edited by dm ()

#2
Nippon
Post rating: ~
i have no idea what is going on in this thread
#3
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
i think youre going to need to start from a place that assumes total ignorance on our part, dm
#4
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
How old were you when you were sent?
What was the ostensible rationale for sending you there?
What were the circumstances of your leaving?
Are there aspects of your experience you'd prefer to keep off limits?
#5
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
i think youre going to need to start from a place that assumes total ignorance on our part, dm



"assume"

#6
Post rating: ~
my parents always threatened to send me to a place like that, and i guess i lucked out in getting sent to a state sanctioned one, or whatever that was part of the school district. they allowed physical "restraint" but it wasn't employed too often, what was worse was the psychological torture that they put the kids through, it was a very dehumanizing experience.

also, most people here are banned from wddp and did not read the thread on WDDP-LF so they will probably not understand what this is about.
#7
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
i think youre going to need to start from a place that assumes total ignorance on our part, dm



yeah im kinda lost

all i really know is that there are weird child prisons that operate in really heinous ways outside the bounds of law and should be purged from existence

#8
Post rating: ~
ok, it's going to take me a minute but this confusion is normal
#9
Post rating: ~

babyfinland posted:
i think youre going to need to start from a place that assumes total ignorance on our part, dm



Ok, here is the tricky part about it. I have to sort of say what happened without saying what happened to me. If it comes to be about me it's just going to automatically get unbearably weird for a lot of reasons.

gyrofry posted:
How old were you when you were sent?
What was the ostensible rationale for sending you there?
What were the circumstances of your leaving?
Are there aspects of your experience you'd prefer to keep off limits?



I was 16 and got out after 9 months (unusually short) because I was going to turn 18 (2004) and that makes the legal custody very problematic. They basically switch it to the facility and then switch it back to avoid touching legal adults.

Here are some screencaps from an application on ostensible reasons, we can work out limits wrt me as necessary:







The first one is a tiny bit coded. "Poor hygeine" means poor, "sexual identity distress" means LGBT, the ones that look misogynistic are very much so, and the ones anyone might be clueless on mostly relate to suicidal depression and/or severe meth addiction (like out on the street).

They function like criminal charges or something and you're supposed to sort of confess your guilt, atone for them, and some other really weird stuff. There's a theme of personal rebirth/salvation. Yes it is very much cult territory and I can go more into that later.

AmericanNazbro posted:
my parents always threatened to send me to a place like that, and i guess i lucked out in getting sent to a state sanctioned one, or whatever that was part of the school district. they allowed physical "restraint" but it wasn't employed too often, what was worse was the psychological torture that they put the kids through, it was a very dehumanizing experience.

also, most people here are banned from wddp and did not read the thread on WDDP-LF so they will probably not understand what this is about.



Yeah there tend to always be more layers to be afraid of being sent to.

Edited by dm ()

#10
Post rating: ~
Whats a day in the life for someone being held there like? Like what do they do?
#11
Post rating: ~

noavbazzer posted:
Whats a day in the life for someone being held there like? Like what do they do?



It's completely normal, but not in a good way. They are complicated controlled environments where you are prohibited from outside contact, then directed and monitored in a way that has the effect of assuring everyone you know that you are "doing great there". It does get worse from there, but I'm going to have to do that very slowly.

e: The last sentence was the basis of the above "squeak toy" comment.

Edited by dm ()

#12
Post rating: ~
Ok, so my hope here is that nobody is going to be too insanely uncomfortable. We can sort of pause here for a while. I'm thinking about everything I've posted in probably the exact same way that all of you are.
#13
Post rating: ~
So do they have the inmates or hostages or what have you participate in labor or something? Is it hard labor or maintenance stuff on the grounds?
#14
[account deactivated]
#15
Post rating: ~
And also don't worry about me or anything here. I've dealt with all of this for a while now and this doesn't make any more sense to me than it does to you. You can react however you want. If you think that you have a way you might be interested in using it for any purposes you have in mind, it's not ruled out.
#16
[account deactivated]
#17
Post rating: ~
are there online or irl support groups for survivors of these places? do you find what they do (or just talking about your experiences) cathartic/therapeutic?

do you feel that your life took a different trajectory in any way after being sent to such a place than if it hadnt?
#18
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
almost all that stuff on the intake application is pretty standard for teens and the stuff that's not requires some therapy not going to prison camp



its the same tactic scientology uses. surprise, literally everyone qualifies for "treatment"

#19
[account deactivated]
#20
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
I have a friend from my childhood I lost touch with. I recently found out his parents sent him to one of these places for catching him with weed and now four or five years later he's a heroin addict and homeless.

this is actually a really interesting topic for a whole plethora of subjects, from the "securitizing" of educations systems to attempting to export the model abroad. I honestly can't believe people get away with this.


one of my friends in highschool was sent to one of those places although it was also scientology run since they were part of that cult. i know a year and a half later when i was a senior in high school he ended up calling me at 330am and i unfortunately was too tired to talk to him coherently. of our group of friends i was the last person to talk to him then. it seems like a lot of people just seem to disappear once they turn old enough to be 'let go'

#21
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
almost all that stuff on the intake application is pretty standard for teens and the stuff that's not requires some therapy not going to prison camp



Yep.

discipline posted:
I have a friend from my childhood I lost touch with. I recently found out his parents sent him to one of these places for catching him with weed and now four or five years later he's a heroin addict and homeless.

this is actually a really interesting topic for a whole plethora of subjects, from the "securitizing" of educations systems to attempting to export the model abroad. I honestly can't believe people get away with this.



The loss of contact happens a lot, but it can be reestablished if you choose. The mechanisms involved certainly exist in a lot of places and situations, so if using it helps you understand something else, that's great.

xipe posted:
are there online or irl support groups for survivors of these places? do you find what they do (or just talking about your experiences) cathartic/therapeutic?

do you feel that your life took a different trajectory in any way after being sent to such a place than if it hadnt?



Yes there are but they are somewhat problematic in some ways too. This is a lot broader than people think it is, so it sort of gets clustered around particular issues that don't address the insane level of generality here.

It's simply part of who I am. I would rather avoid thinking in terms of "if it hadn't" because it can cause some problems with how people are viewed. We can agree to be ok with me just as I am.

Edited by dm ()

#22
Kurdt
Post rating: ~
What were some of the specific abusive practices employed by the facility you were at? Why do you believe your parent/s chose to send you to the facility? Do you think they were misled? Was there an ideological or religious dimension to their choice? Were they aware of the practices employed (before or during your time there)? Has their view on the facility changed since they originally sent you? Have you maintained a relationship with your parent/s?
#23
Post rating: ~

discipline posted:
I just can't believe it's legal to do this. I mean in a great number of countries it's not even legal to spank your children. this must be an incredibly lucrative industry who can afford a powerful lobby or something.

that the criminal law doesn't stop them doesn't surprise me. local da isn't going to bust a respected local christian based on the stories of a bunch of kids, especially if said respected local christian offers sweetheart deals for juvenile justice probation referrals to manufacture complicity. plus, you're rarely gonna have any evidence beyond testimony, and a single prick who thinks "the little bastards prolly deserved it" can ruin the jury

in theory most of this shit probably opens them up to civil liability unless they're somehow classified as prisons and a lot of it even then, but there's obvi a lot of barriers to that too

#24
Post rating: ~
Notice how it sort of seems to pervade so many things? That's why I made this thread. I really freakin' hate the idea of being "authorized by a survivor" or whatever for people to talk about it.
#25
Post rating: ~
suing one of these guys would probably end up a lot like some demented parody of an early 20th century rape trial, the plaintiff would need to be a Hero
#26
Post rating: ~
Ok, I'll get to the next round of questions directed at me in a second. Keep going all you want among one another. The thing I need to warn about is that many forms of abuse feed into it as well as going out, so be careful about boundaries and everything. Mine don't work very well, which is why I have to be really careful when bringing it up.
#27
Nippon
Post rating: -
Who was the most messed up dude you met there
#28
Post rating: ~

gyrofry posted:
What were some of the specific abusive practices employed by the facility you were at? Why do you believe your parent/s chose to send you to the facility? Do you think they were misled? Was there an ideological or religious dimension to their choice? Were they aware of the practices employed (before or during your time there)? Has their view on the facility changed since they originally sent you? Have you maintained a relationship with your parent/s?



You have really good questions. I will answer them in spoilers and see how that works. If you keep it up I might do spoilers within spoilers.

This is not nice stuff, but I'm willing to say it. This is a well-informed decision that will not be understood until it's already too late. Do not click unless you are ready, ask other people whether you should click, tell each other not to click, etc.

"Man’s reflections on the forms of social life, and consequently, also, his scientific analysis of those forms, take a course directly opposite to that of their actual historical development. He begins, post festum, with the results of the process of development ready to hand before him."

Spoiler!
#29
Post rating: ~
That felt really good by the way. Yeah, it's pretty fucked.
#30
Post rating: ~
Yeah these are, as you would expect, everywhere in Mormon Country. There was a chain that had a couple branches in Idaho near where I used to live (CEDU, which first the blog post on that site dm linked is discussing), and in Utah a prominent state senator ran a similar operation called the Utah Boy's Ranch for many years. The support group for veterans of that particular institution is here: http://www.mormongulag.com/

For a more digestible snippet of what actually happens and what these places are like, and why paranoid shitheads inflict them on their children, read this: http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/01/chris_buttars_and_the_mormon_g.php

I still have no idea what the note in the op means though.
#31
Nippon
Post rating: -----
Whatever you did must have been pretty awful but also embarrassing enough to not want to talk about it on an internet forum. Suicide attempt is out, as is gayness and most crimes. If it was for no reason the unjustness of itthe would have been stated upfront. Personally I'm betting on incest

jesus christ goatstein, off you go

Edited by futurewidow ()

#32
Post rating: +
I love you dm
#33
[account deactivated]
#34
Post rating: ~
wincest
#35
Post rating: ~

Goethestein posted:
Whatever you did must have been pretty awful but also embarrassing enough to not want to talk about it on an internet forum. Suicide attempt is out, as is gayness and most crimes. If it was for no reason the unjustness of itthe would have been stated upfront. Personally I'm betting on incest



no incest for me, but they passed around rumors about some of the girls. more application material.

It is my understanding that upon admission, a physical exam will be completed. This exam will include a pelvic exam and cultures for females who have been sexually active.



also the "what you did" thing is really not cool. you can think of it kind of lit as kind of like a rhetorical question for people who know a little bit about this stuff. actually expecting me to answer is an unfortunate part of what i've been through

Meursault posted:
I love you dm



thanks, that's a very nice thing of you to say. there is still an idiot on WDDP trying to put me in my place or something for not letting him exploit it for forum popularity. he knows just enough to be seriously disturbing by PMing me on alt accounts unless that is actually someone willing to say something.

it will have been worth it if someone can take my place and talk about it. it's so much nicer here, even with goatstein and everything

#36
[account deactivated]
#37
Post rating: ~

stegosaurus posted:
Yeah these are, as you would expect, everywhere in Mormon Country.



yeah, that's where i was. all of the staff was Mormon but in a totally not trying to convert us sort of way. there are just these elements of the program you see

#38
Post rating: ~
i told you all in that thread that mormons need to be suppressed and purged but you didnt listen to me
#39
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: +
you really should stop posting at / reading WDDP immediately

also goatstein is basically a WDDP settler so ignore him~
#40
tardy on these heaters
Post rating: ~
i knew someone who went to one of these places and we always called it the Don't Do It Again Anymore School