discipline posted:Do you realize that Libya has been getting bombed by unmarked planes? That Egypt and UAE have been bombing Libya? That George Bush really DOESN'T care about black people? You take this position of petulance, where you're clinging to a narrative you know to be false while mocking the narrative you not only know is correct but the acceptance of which would require you to forgo some things you've been promised as a well educated white first world male
sam isn't the problem. hell, he might be part of the solution.
stegosaurus posted:I'm sure this is an important discussion but the rhizzzonez prepaid hosting runs out on the winter solstice of this year. So unless anyone else is going to be getting that pundit money by that time it will be curtains for this place. Imagine the baddest bad gateway. Now make it even badder.
I'm happy to pay but I would want server access so I can fix the shitty code. Someone PM me.
deadken posted:like the eu announcing military action isn't even relevant here and i never said it was an impossibility. what i object to is the idea that the media only covered the boat deaths as a prelude to military action, and the fact that your guy phil here read about thousands of people dying on the mediterranean and his first thought didn't have anything to do with the victims or the kind of structures that create tragedies like this, but how media lackeys are preparing the ground for imperial domination in africa or whatever. this is because he's a mad and ugly idiot. also he keeps talking about the "filthy bourgeoisie" which is uh weird on a lot of levels
there's never only one reason why any media outlet covers a story, they have a bunch of semi-differentiated incentives like "comment on topics that evoke nationalist angst", "be more current than competitors", "report on things with political relevance", "make something politically relevant", or "dont get in trouble with the government/funding agencies". it should be obvious, though, that together they essentially constrain the agencies to setting an effective backdrop for projection of capital outwards from the core. these projections, especially military interventionism, are the exact structures that precipitate events like the deaths of the refugees. the correct understanding of the media appraisal of the situation is as an element of the process that reproduces this tragedy.
discipline posted:Do you realize that Libya has been getting bombed by unmarked planes? That Egypt and UAE have been bombing Libya? That George Bush really DOESN'T care about black people? You take this position of petulance, where you're clinging to a narrative you know to be false while mocking the narrative you not only know is correct but the acceptance of which would require you to forgo some things you've been promised as a well educated white first world male
is this directed at me? b/c it's uh pretty stupid. yes, i know that egypt and the uae have been bombing libya. they've been doing it openly. their armies hand out press releases after each bombing run. because you know imperialism generally does its worst deeds out in the open, in the sure knowledge that nobody in the imperial core really cares all that much
tpaine posted:i wonder what a rhabdomancer's familiar is
usually it's a big stick
stegosaurus posted:I'm sure this is an important discussion but the rhizzzonez prepaid hosting runs out on the winter solstice of this year. So unless anyone else is going to be getting that pundit money by that time it will be curtains for this place. Imagine the baddest bad gateway. Now make it even badder.
once tpaine inevitably caves in and gets on twitter there won't really be much point to this place
deadken posted:nobody's 'screaming conspiracy theory'. i'm not trying to deny the existence of imperialism or that most western media is basically propaganda, because that would be idiotic. the problem is when people think they can 'read through' the media spectacle, crack the code, decipher the symptomatic dominant message and get at the True Reality Of What's Going On that lies within, precisely through an examination of the false. some people seem to think they can stand outside the social discourse and critique it from a position of pure transcendence. this isn't marxism, or even hermeneutics, it's rhabdomancy and snake-oil bullshit
deciphering some secret code is way past the point. the point is to locate and point out the motions and trends in the media which play a role in the reproduction of imperial assault, generally through oblique propaganda
deadken posted:the problem is when people think they can 'read through' the media spectacle, crack the code, decipher the symptomatic dominant message and get at the True Reality Of What's Going On that lies within, precisely through an examination of the false.
at least they're trying.
getfiscal posted:I agree 100% that it is rhabdomancy. Like, that nails it. But deadken should explain what that means for other people. Other people who don't know what rhabdomancy is, which I do.
Rhabdomancy is divination using bundles of sticks, or fa..., wooah that Anglo homophobia always creeps in somewhere huh??
littlegreenpills posted:srs question who in the us govt has been pushing the mike brown/trayvon martin/#blacklivesmatter brouhaha
well they tried to appeal to those people (during ferguson) with the State Department's "Fusion Rise Up", in partnership with Disney/Univision (and Uber, among others). They also brought in Occupy Hong Kong, Venezuela Nazis, 'Arab Spring', Pussy Riot, Maidan activists, etc. so, along with a bunch of media stories redbaiting the radical sections of Ferguson, probably they were interested in heading off black activists at all levels
deadken posted:nobody's 'screaming conspiracy theory'. i'm not trying to deny the existence of imperialism or that most western media is basically propaganda, because that would be idiotic. the problem is when people think they can 'read through' the media spectacle, crack the code, decipher the symptomatic dominant message and get at the True Reality Of What's Going On that lies within, precisely through an examination of the false.
oh so you mean Marxism. You know, because concrete evidence and regular ole analysis of imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism, may be a bit more helpful than moralistic, vague handwringing about "the (Unavoidable? Ex nihilo?) tragedy of the system". Or do you really still think the imperial media aren't pure cynics up and down the line?
i mean what youre basically doing here is... trying to find some flimsy justification to go after communists. Attacking communists for placing the blame clearly and openly on the imperial bourgeoisie, which anyone with half a brain can clearly see are openly 1) agitating for war thru its various organs and 2) spearheading 'development' in Africa by missilepoint. Your vitriol is saved for not, straight up, out-and-out baby killers and the snake-oil salesmen that actually run the media conglomerates and propaganda apparatus, but for... "snake-oil salesmen" that sell Marxism Leninism and anti-imperialism? oh okay. Maybe he gets paid per retweet?
I mean I know the deadly sarcasm and intellectual wordplay in your articles strike considerable blows against the bourgeoisie, compelling the common working peoples of the world, and indeed a NYTimes blog would be a great victory in the growing Red tide, but perhaps you may want to lay off people that don't... rhabdomancy off the desiccated corpse of Deleuze & Co. and speak more clearly and honestly.
I support your plan to charm the bourgeoisie to death and inspire the victorious proletariat thru boredom (Makes U Think), but I think maybe you should lay off anti-imperialists agitating against the enemy, or you might get mistaken for a garden-variety attack dog of the bourgeoisie. Final warning. Next time's a ban.
deadken posted:discipline posted:Do you realize that Libya has been getting bombed by unmarked planes? That Egypt and UAE have been bombing Libya? That George Bush really DOESN'T care about black people? You take this position of petulance, where you're clinging to a narrative you know to be false while mocking the narrative you not only know is correct but the acceptance of which would require you to forgo some things you've been promised as a well educated white first world male
is this directed at me? b/c it's uh pretty stupid. yes, i know that egypt and the uae have been bombing libya. they've been doing it openly. their armies hand out press releases after each bombing run. because you know imperialism generally does its worst deeds out in the open, in the sure knowledge that nobody in the imperial core really cares all that much
yeah like... COINTELPRO, Iran Contra, uhh Any Operation in Eastern Europe, uhh, GLADIO, let's see here, the other stuff... Hmm [European voice] Ehhh....
if no one in the imperial core really cares about this stuff, then you should tell the capitalists that, they can repurpose that vast propaganda machine. Heck, maybe there'll be more funding for classes on the Frankfurt School, you never know.
tpaine posted:i'm having a hard time following this beef. can a nigga get this in less than 140 chars.
PPpetulant Annnnnnnticommmmunist Petite Bourgeois Dilettaaaanannnntnttteeeee. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude............
tpaine posted:i'm having a hard time following this beef. can a nigga get this in less than 140 chars.
Crow posted:deadken posted:nobody's 'screaming conspiracy theory'. i'm not trying to deny the existence of imperialism or that most western media is basically propaganda, because that would be idiotic. the problem is when people think they can 'read through' the media spectacle, crack the code, decipher the symptomatic dominant message and get at the True Reality Of What's Going On that lies within, precisely through an examination of the false.
oh so you mean Marxism. You know, because concrete evidence and regular ole analysis of imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism, may be a bit more helpful than moralistic, vague handwringing about "the (Unavoidable? Ex nihilo?) tragedy of the system". Or do you really still think the imperial media aren't pure cynics up and down the line?
i mean what youre basically doing here is... trying to find some flimsy justification to go after communists. Attacking communists for placing the blame clearly and openly on the imperial bourgeoisie, which anyone with half a brain can clearly see are openly 1) agitating for war thru its various organs and 2) spearheading 'development' in Africa by missilepoint. Your vitriol is saved for not, straight up, out-and-out baby killers and the snake-oil salesmen that actually run the media conglomerates and propaganda apparatus, but for... "snake-oil salesmen" that sell Marxism Leninism and anti-imperialism? oh okay. Maybe he gets paid per retweet?
I mean I know the deadly sarcasm and intellectual wordplay in your articles strike considerable blows against the bourgeoisie, compelling the common working peoples of the world, and indeed a NYTimes blog would be a great victory in the growing Red tide, but perhaps you may want to lay off people that don't... rhabdomancy off the desiccated corpse of Deleuze & Co. and speak more clearly and honestly.
I support your plan to charm the bourgeoisie to death and inspire the victorious proletariat thru boredom (Makes U Think), but I think maybe you should lay off anti-imperialists agitating against the enemy, or you might get mistaken for a garden-variety attack dog of the bourgeoisie. Final warning. Next time's a ban.
"you shouldn't criticise other communists! so what if he has a bad line and his methodology is fundamentally non-marxist! why aren't you going after the real enemy?" <--- literally u
like if you think phil 'so autistic rivers run dry 500 miles away' greaves is actually striking serious blows against the global bourgeoisie with his 100,000 spluttering and indignant word duplo horrorhouses then buddy..... my man....