Crow posted:loyellthecat22 posted:
i can't excercise because richard "lowtakkks" kyanka closed old-lf last year or whever before that jew camera guy who owns sears tower or whatever sent me to costa rica to get my crippling knee injuries fixed.please check your privilage next time OP
Kinda fucked up that sears tower owning mother fucker jew didnt help you out with this. I `ll get you a different, more different tower, owning jew, and he'll fund the next round
where are all the damn jew owning towers
Meursault posted:muscles are pretty gross
shennong posted:Crow posted:shennong posted:Crow posted:
Does anyone have stats about protein synthesis? I want to give it only 24 hour period between today's workout and tomorrow's, i had to catch up on one i lost yesterday by doing it today, and tomorrow i have to go in again because i'm with a partner. i'm wondering how much i'm losing doing thatwhat do you mean by protein synthesis? like how much additional myosin is produced after stressing a muscle fibre or sth?
hmm let me think about how to put it, i mean how do i maximize hypertrophy and recovery, can i do core strength training everyday? i was under the impression that after 28 hours the muscle protein synthesis returns to normal after resistance training, meaning that its better to take a day between strength training days
theres close to zero actual scientific data on this from anything resembling a representative non-diseased human population and anyone who gives you a specific number is full of shit. i dont know of too many stress-induced transcriptional/translational responses that last longer than a day so 24 hours sounds about right. its not even really clear that protein synthesis returns to "normal" because over the long term you're remodelling your muscle and causing parameters like protein turnover to change. if you're training every day my guess is that the effects of fatigue (not being able to move as great a load as you otherwise would if you rested) probably trumps any problems with refractory protein synthesis
there are scientific studies done on protein synthesis rates, tons of them, with regard to different variables (steroids, etc...). if i can remember off the top of my head it peaks highest 36hours after lifting, and in trained individuals it decreases the more time they've been lifting, which makes sense because of how gains plateau out.
no such thing as overtraining, only under-resting
what worked best for me was lifting twice a day, hitting same muscle groups twice on that day, took me 7-9 days to recover that way. if you are just starting out, then it's probably not necessary but works well to break through plateaus
AmericanNazbro posted:
there are scientific studies done on protein synthesis rates, tons of them, with regard to different variables (steroids, etc...). if i can remember off the top of my head it peaks highest 36hours after lifting, and in trained individuals it decreases the more time they've been lifting, which makes sense because of how gains plateau out.
you're right, i was thinking of specifically actin/myosin synthesis but most myofibrillar protein synthesis is prob that + mitchondrial proteins anyway. the radiolabel biopsy studies are probably the most useful thing to look at although i'm surprised by the idea that peak synthesis is at 36hr post stress, that's a pretty long response
animedad posted:
i know the objective is to leave a strong young corpse but what if it doesnt happen? sag city man
that is not the objective. that's maybe a positive side effect
shennong posted:AmericanNazbro posted:
there are scientific studies done on protein synthesis rates, tons of them, with regard to different variables (steroids, etc...). if i can remember off the top of my head it peaks highest 36hours after lifting, and in trained individuals it decreases the more time they've been lifting, which makes sense because of how gains plateau out.you're right, i was thinking of specifically actin/myosin synthesis but most myofibrillar protein synthesis is prob that + mitchondrial proteins anyway. the radiolabel biopsy studies are probably the most useful thing to look at although i'm surprised by the idea that peak synthesis is at 36hr post stress, that's a pretty long response
the study i remember reading about didn't specify but i assume myoblasts since those are the only ones relevant to hypertrophy.
it's all really irrelevant though, too much scrutiny of fine details and missing the forest for the trees. basics are eat sleep train and rest and it's not much more complicated than that. people think you need laser precision with diet and training but i can tell you from over a decade of training that it's all bullshit, all of it. the only people who look built are people on steroids or the very rare handful of people with exceptional genetics.
edit: i'm trying to find that article because i'm sure you know yourself most studies cite 24hours as the peak for protein synthesis so i'm starting to second guess myself and it might have been referring to carbless protein synthesis rate elevated for 36hr. going through hundreds of posts trying to find the article that i read a year ago, hopefully i can find it. also i know myoblasts are satellite cells but they are the cause of sarcomere hypertrophy and i'm lazy so that's why i said that. but it's probably an increase in myosin synthesis since skeletal muscles are comprised of mostly myosin 
Edited by AmericanNazbro ()
Does Eccentric Speed Make A Difference in Hypertrophy?
Hamilton Roschel,a,b Carlos Ugrinowistch,a Renato Barroso,a Mauro A.B. Batista,a Eduardo O. Souza,a Marcelo S. Aoki,a Mario A. Siqueira-Filho,c Ricardo Zanuto,c Carla R.O. Carvalho,c Manoel Neves Jr.,b Marco T. Mello,d Valmor Tricolia. Effect of eccentric exercise velocity on akt/mtor/p70s6k signaling in human skeletal muscle. Applied Physiology, Nutrition, and Metabolism, 2011, 36:283-290.
Abstract
It has been suggested that muscle tension plays a major role in the activation of intracellular pathways for skeletal muscle hypertrophy via an increase in mechano growth factor (MGF) and other downstream targets. Eccentric exercise (EE) imposes a greater amount of tension on the active muscle. In particular, high-speed EE seems to exert an additional effect on muscle tension and, thus, on muscle hypertrophy. However, little is known about the effect of EE velocity on hypertrophy signaling. This study investigated the effect of acute EE-velocity manipulation on the Akt/mTORCI/p70S6K hypertrophy pathway. Twenty subjects were assigned to either a slow (20°·s–1; ES) or fast EE (210°·s–1; EF) group. Biopsies were taken from vastus lateralis at baseline (B), immediately after (T1), and 2 h after (T2) the completion of 5 sets of 8 repetitions of eccentric knee extensions. Akt, mTOR, and p70S6K total protein were similar between groups, and did not change postintervention. Further, Akt and p70S6K protein phosphorylation were higher at T2 than at B for ES and EF. MGF messenger RNA was similar between groups, and only significantly higher at T2 than at B in ES. The acute manipulation of EE velocity does not seem to differently influence intracellular hypertrophy signaling through the Akt/mTORCI/p70S6K pathway.
In this study researchers had subjects perform 5 sets of 8 repetitions of an eccentric knee extension exercise at either a slow (20°·s–1; ES) or fast execution speed (210°·s–1; EF). After the workout, biopsies were taken from vastus lateralis at three timepoints: baseline (B), immediately after (T1), and 2 h after (T2). The results did not confirm the scientists' working hypothesis that execution velocity (and thus muscle tension) would have a direct influence on Akt, mTOR, and p70S6K expression in the trained muscles.
So what this study found was, with respect to the measured variables and in the confounding case of eccentric exercises, it does not matter whether you do your reps out at maximum speed or try to slow the movement down deliberately (as in doggcrapp or superslow). What this study didn't investigate was the speed of concentric exercise. According to studies investigating concentric, explosive lifting recruits more type II fibers thus increasing hypertrophy.
TUT seemed to not be as an important factor, rather it seemed more important the amount of stress placed on the muscle in a specific time frame or time under MAXIMUM tension, (~11 reps). So controlled eccentric movements with explosive concentric movements probably at a RM of 55%-82.5% where force generation (fmax) is at its highest. This is also where dynamic effort training takes place.
To make this simple, the steeper the line, the shorter the time, the greater the number of muscle fibers you've simultaneously recruited in the movement.
If you start going over the 82.5% 1RM the line starts to flatten as seen on the left. Optimal tension on the muscle to exhaust type II fibers is 55% - 82.5% where the line is steep, the weight are heavy and the time is short.
So we need to lower the weight and get a movement that goes from the figure on the left to the figure on the right:
Lee Haney does a great job talking about this in a video though it is obvious he doesn't have a clue about the science involved. But he does a great job putting it in layman's terms describing the difference between lifting movements to resimble in a "check mark" rather than a "U"
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/seminars/11-legend-seminar/3813-leg-training-with-lee-haney-at-the-md-legends-seminar.html
What this research shows is that the speed of the negative makes no difference in protein synthesis. What makes a difference is the speed of the concentric portion. So controlled negatives are good, an explosive concentric are a must.
Listen to the Lee Haney video, Lee describes the movement as a "check mark." As you see with the diagrams, this is also called a Angle of Q in biomechanics, where the amount of weight lifted times the time it takes to lift the weight equal force (f=m*t). Because more type II muscle fibers are used and exhausted at peak force, it is best that we train where peak force is at its highest. Research has determined that that falls between 55% 1RM and 82.5% 1RM for around 11 reps. Training under that weight type II fibers are not exhausted optimally, training over that weight develops limit strength as the reps fall.
Now can you grow and get stronger using super slow stuff? Of course, but is it optimal? I guess you then need to watch how ALL pro bodybuilders train. Lee Haney, 8 times my O, Jay Cutler, Ronnie Coleman etc etc.
This is why I feel research like this is so important. It is not telling us how to train, rather offering an explaination why people like Haney, Cutler, Coleman get the results they do training. These guys don't care about science, they train like they do because it works. Now science explains why it works.
Sure HIT works, and sure super slow works, but imagine how much more you could have done training from 55% - 82.5% explosively with controlled negatives? Our pros don't get good simply by good genetics. They also have figured out how to take advantage of their good genetics in the gym.
The proof is in the pudding. Watch the following videos and see how all of the pros trained controlled eccentrics and explosive concentric movements.
Lee Haney (“controlled negative – explode!”)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gsIAYjvuew
Ronnie Coleman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP-OYrkdFX8
Jay Cutley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTPWeUxqwQ
Branch Warren / Johnny Jackson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBHbs-GX0IM
Dorian Yates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MClvWrFM88s
Dorian Yates is used as the poster boy for the HIT guys and super slow guys. Nothing he does is slow.
the causes of hypertrophy at a cellular level aren't a strong point of mine, i've never been inclined to read through hundreds of studies on sports&nutrition articles and all of my knowledge on the subject is just from gleaning through articles for a specific and usually unrelated reason and forgetting 90% of it, on top of that i have extreme brain fog today, however, all that being said if you are asking what pathway ATK leads to that induces protein synthesis it is the motr pathway.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16990457
http://biologie.univ-mrs.fr/upload/p85/Article1CM.pdf - We have found6 that hypertrophy of myotubes induced in vitro
by insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) depended on a pathway initiated
by PtdIns-3-OH kinase (PI(3)K) and the PtdIns-regulated
kinase Akt, which in turn led to activation of the rapamycin-sensitive
kinase known as mTOR, whose downstream targets, p70S6K and
PHAS-1/4E-BP1, have been shown to promote protein synthesis
through increases in translation initiation and elongation12–16.
off the top of my head, the pathways that induce hypertrophy are STAT5B, MAPK, PI-3 aaaand that's all i can remember, though there are others that escape me in my current state, lol.
regardless, all of them are activated by the hormones, insulin, androgens, and growth hormone (with the latter two, via creating igf-1 at the local level as well as direct binding). their activation begins a downstream cascade of opening more and more channels that induce myoblast proliferation, receptor birth and expression as well as increasing protein synthesis and decreasing protein degradation to shift protein turnover towards an anabolic state. all together, it is the cause of hypertrophy (and to a lesser extent hyperplasia) that we see after working out!
babyfinland posted:
nerds
i don't actually workout, i just live vicariously as a bodybuilder by posting about weight lifting and protein shakes.
babyfinland posted:
nerds
Hey, now
You were nerds to once, ya know!
Crow posted:babyfinland posted:
nerdsHey, now
same
babyfinland posted:
why do you frame everything in terms of personal delusions of heroic grandeur. why cant you just appreciate that exercise is good for human being. why this stuff about revolutionary. you dont revolution, you just drink beers and act gay with impper on a forum. This is nonsense. downvoting.
Lessons posted:
i want to look like a swollen sack of meat and engage in interpersonal violence, ftw. this is life, and being a man.
same im communist
Skylark posted:
muscles are gross and any muscles beyond the "fairly healthy" level is unattractive imo....
what is the "fairly fucking healthy" level
get to training ya'll
Lessons posted:
crow do you realize there's a difference between health + fitness and bodybuilding for the sake of vanity
do you realize that vanity strikes at every level of a person, and that building strength is not any more vain than riding people for trying to do good for themselves
Lessons posted:
crow do you realize there's a difference between health + fitness and bodybuilding for the sake of vanity
yeah sure son, however you want to rationalize being fat + ugly.
god bless
Crow posted:Lessons posted:
crow do you realize there's a difference between health + fitness and bodybuilding for the sake of vanitydo you realize that vanity strikes at every level of a person, and that building strength is not any more vain than riding people for trying to do good for themselves
haha no actually it is
Lessons posted:Crow posted:Lessons posted:
crow do you realize there's a difference between health + fitness and bodybuilding for the sake of vanitydo you realize that vanity strikes at every level of a person, and that building strength is not any more vain than riding people for trying to do good for themselves
haha no actually it is
The Once and Future Parasite, Ladies and Gentlemen