getfiscal posted:

i've seen a lot of people i respect make the argument that "in the USA, the mainstream is so far right-wing that making simple points like 'israel shouldn't kill gazans for no reason' is radical". you see similar stuff in defence of corbyn. i actually think that should be criticized. radical means quite plainly that you analyze a problem and then seek to undo it. reformism is defined by looking at problems and finding ways to improve the situation without destroying the fundamental political structures within which those decisions are made. introducing mildly controversial ideas into a mainstream political context is not radical. people compare him to debs and ironically they usually point to the election where debs campaigned from jail. debs was also calling for socialism all the way down, as in socialist planning of industry. debs had defended the russian revolution and told people he was an american bolshevik. i believe sanders called chavez a communist dictator.

Dead. "Dead communist dictator." He also had to cruelly mock the very real pain and suffering Bolivarians and their red brothers and sisters worldwide have to endure after Chavez was murdered.

MarianneSadd posted:

Today I was out with my comrades giving food to the workers on strike and when the shop steward asked one of my 'rades where we were from he said, "Oh, we're socialists."

There was a mid twenties lady there with a big blonde smile and a t-shirt with Bernie Sanders' face on it. She got so happy, with a big ol smile, and said "I'm a socialist too!"

And I pointed at her shirt and said, "We're not THAT kind of socialist," and she looked at me like she swallowed a fly. I call that sort of move Raising Consciousness.

in canada we call that "raining on someone's parade"

MarianneSadd posted:

Today I was out with my comrades giving food to the workers on strike and when the shop steward asked one of my 'rades where we were from he said, "Oh, we're socialists."

There was a mid twenties lady there with a big blonde smile and a t-shirt with Bernie Sanders' face on it. She got so happy, with a big ol smile, and said "I'm a socialist too!"

And I pointed at her shirt and said, "We're not THAT kind of socialist," and she looked at me like she swallowed a fly. I call that sort of move Raising Consciousness.

same thing happened to me, i made sure to explain that i was a NATIONAL socialist, before I threw my pizza at her feet and just zig heiled my way out of there

glomper_stomper posted:

MarianneSadd posted:

That Brian Becker PSL piece is garbage. I'm really shocked that a party of just a few hundred people think they are able to somehow influence the democratic party. It's not a mass party, the only thing that PSL has (to paraphrase a comrade) is their values. It's narcissistic for them to think they should be able to compromise on the definition of socialism with people who have no interest in it. This is the "Jacobin" mentality of the left... that somehow, people hearing about socialism on the news makes the world an easier place for socialists. I have friends who have lost their jobs recently for being reds; what this does is isolate them further. Also, his part on primary contradiction is such a vulgar reading of Mao in this regard.

I'm really embarrassed I hadn't seen that before, and really ashamed I'd thought of getting involved with a party that had such huge egos. I had heard of the PSL/WWP split and was in denial it was about this sort of ego thing... now I know for sure. The only reason I'd go to a PSL meeting is to poach talent for a better, different project, it seems.

i think it's important to remember that you can always teach people marxist-leninist theory but the conditions are never ripe during elections, since it depends on such intense ideological molding. realistically, the same people who now support sanders, hillary, or even trump are people you're going to have to organize and educate a year or two years from now.

I don't think that workers liberation hinges on a 26 year old with an Obama 2012 tattoo, rather, on those who are incarcerated, dispossessed, without papers, and others from oppressed populations that don't give a shit who is running for president this year, or about bourgeois elections in general. There are hundreds of millions in the US who fit this bill.

MarianneSadd posted:

I don't think that workers liberation hinges on a 26 year old with an Obama 2012 tattoo, rather, on those who are incarcerated, dispossessed, without papers, and others from oppressed populations that don't give a shit who is running for president this year, or about bourgeois elections in general.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/08/six-take-aways-from-the-census-bureaus-voting-report/

For the first time ever, the black voter turnout rate in a presidential election exceeded the white voter turnout rate—66.2% versus 64.1%. While the presence of Barack Obama on the ballot in 2008 and 2012 no doubt contributed to the narrowing and reversal of what had been a longstanding black-white turnout gap, the rise in the black turnout rate pre-dates his candidacies, as the chart to the right illustrates.

i somehow get the feeling that writing off people who Care about elections is a bad organizing strategy but that's just me.

MarianneSadd posted:

That Brian Becker PSL piece is garbage. I'm really shocked that a party of just a few hundred people think they are able to somehow influence the democratic party. It's not a mass party, the only thing that PSL has (to paraphrase a comrade) is their values. It's narcissistic for them to think they should be able to compromise on the definition of socialism with people who have no interest in it. This is the "Jacobin" mentality of the left... that somehow, people hearing about socialism on the news makes the world an easier place for socialists. I have friends who have lost their jobs recently for being reds; what this does is isolate them further. Also, his part on primary contradiction is such a vulgar reading of Mao in this regard.

I'm really embarrassed I hadn't seen that before, and really ashamed I'd thought of getting involved with a party that had such huge egos. I had heard of the PSL/WWP split and was in denial it was about this sort of ego thing... now I know for sure. The only reason I'd go to a PSL meeting is to poach talent for a better, different project, it seems.

http://www.liberationnews.org/registered-democrats-vote-sanders-n-y-primary/

MarianneSadd posted:

I really can't believe I have to live under these circumstances. I have a bedbug infestation after finally finding a secure long-term place to live, and now this...

pour a little bit of eucalyptus oil (like 2 tbs) on a rolled up wad of toilet paper and put it under your mattress. try not to get any of it on you.

aerdil posted:

RIP to the social imperialist campaign of bernie sanders tonight now that this social democratic aberration is over hopefully everyone on the left can go back to condemning bourgeois elections again

hopefully all the sanders voters become radical leftists, considering the "radical leftists" were voting sanders

ilmdge posted:

aerdil posted:

RIP to the social imperialist campaign of bernie sanders tonight now that this social democratic aberration is over hopefully everyone on the left can go back to condemning bourgeois elections again

hopefully all the sanders voters become radical leftists, considering the "radical leftists" were voting sanders

Apparently after the NY poll people are saying it's gonna look like a Clinton vs Trump election which I think is the best outcome as far as educating the American people about the extensive corruption in American politics. (Primarily concerining the demokkkratic party)

You know that Mister Donald is going to drag all her skeletons out ones by one and talk about them over and over and whenever he talks about some awful shit she actually did, it's going to make people go crazy. It's going to be beautiful.